Bleach as a Brown Rot Fungicide?

Kevin,

As mentioned, myclo isn’t the best for BR. Sooo, alternate spraying every two weeks with myclo and Captan is closer to spraying once/month for brown rot.

In very frequent/high rainfall the fungicide protectant is washed off fairly quickly. In lots of heavy rainfalls, it may require weekly applications under those conditions for commercial applications. The problem is that while you are not commercial, you are quickly accumulating enough trees that they start to act like a commercial orchard. In that case, you want to keep a protectant on. That may mean reapplying weekly after heavy rains.

Regarding bleach. As mentioned, I wouldn’t try it. Chlorine is very reactive to organic matter. Although I haven’t tried it, it’s likely, imo, that using enough bleach to effectively treat brown rot, will have a substantially negative effect on the foliage, and possibly the skin of the fruit.

If it were just a matter of spraying our trees with bleach as a rescue spray to control brown rot, I would have done it long ago. If not for anything else, but for the cost (One can obtain high powered chlorine pool tablets, very cheaply, which are the equivalent of countless gallons of bleach.) I’m not at all optimistic bleach would have a therapeutic effect on BR, unless the dose was so strong to also have a phytotoxic effect on the foliage.

3 Likes

I use a 10% bleach solution to treat stratified ginseng seed b4 planting. 5 minutes in 10% solution bath. Often when ginseng seed is properly stratified the seeds will be tailing… the little root starts will be poking out the seed a little and the seed will be starting to crack open slightly.

It sure does not hurt viable ginseng seed… I always had great germination rates.

Never tried that on peaches though. My early elberta peaches started ripening mid june… and even with no spray… I got several nice peaches off that tree.

Towards the end … I saw brown rot kick In and took a lot of them out. First time i have seen that here. My Reliance ? tree started ripening fruit 2nd week in july… and I lost 90% or more to brown rot.

I love peaches… but it seems to be impossible to get good ones now days unless you spray them with things I am just not willing to spray on my food.

TNHunter

1 Like

Yes, for sure, and something even better is Bonide’s Fruit Tree and Plant Guard. It contains two fungicides that have a different mode of action compared to Indar and Infuse which have the same mode of action. In other words they attack the fungi differently. Using both is like having two fronts in a battle and you can out flank brown rot. I get ZERO brown rot doing this. Now the bad news, Plant Guard looks to have been discontinued. I bought as much as I could before hand.

3 Likes

If you want to grow peaches without synthetic fungicides to control brown rot you are unlikely to be successful in the long run unless you live in an arid region. All of the peaches you buy in a grocery store are sprayed with synthetic fungicides and insecticides.

There are some things you can do. First plant only peaches that have some resistance to brown rot. Glohaven, Babygold #5, Harcrest and Elberta have some resistance. You also may have some success with peaches that ripen during a period when rainfall is low even if they are not resistant to brown rot. Remove susceptible varieties especially highly susceptible ones. These trees act as brown rot disease reservoirs and can make conditions in your orchard much worse. Spraying sulfur on a regular schedule will help and it’s certified for organic orchards. A full sun location, good air circulation, and pruning the tree to be open will also help.

A friend of mine also wanted to grow peaches organically. I told him it would be very tough but I would help him pick a good tree. Ultimately we decided Glohaven was the best choice based on its resistance to brown rot and bacterial spot. It also can produce very large peaches but that was a minor consideration.

3 Likes

Very true. I feel though if you want to stay organic grow easier fruit and lot’s of cool things like Jujubes, mulberries, filberts, and many others too. I added Shipova this year for example. I think it takes about 8 years to fruit though.
Worse than peaches is nectarines. That fuzz stops a lot of things!

Yes. 1000 times yes!

Wait…did you really just suggest that I might need to start spraying once a week? I just got a cold chill down my back at the mere mention of trying to spray anymore than I already do! haha. But I understand. And based on you and other responders here I had decided exactly what you said- my alternating of myclo and captan effectively meant I was treating for brown rot once a month, which clearly wasn’t enough. Even though I understand the science (somewhat) and trust you implicitly, its just hard to wrap my brain around the fact that myclo can be so great at treating some things like black rot on grapes (it is downright miraculous how well it ended that problem for me) and yet not be much use at all on brown rot. I’m sure you have told us 1000 times, so I’m sorry to ask, but can you remind me what you use for brown rot?

And, btw, I promise I’m not just saying this to be nice or inflate your ego, but when I was wondering if I might be able to use bleach as a last-minute rescue for fruits that already had brownrot fungi but weren’t yet showing it, I literally thought “if it was that simple I’m sure Mark would have been doing it by now” ! Really.

Whatever you are using for BR, what is the PHI on it? Is there anything that can be done once you start noticing that as peaches on a tree ripen they immediately get covered in Brown rot? Meaning BR fungi (spores?) are probable already all over that tree and its fruit but still hasn’t ruined unripen fruit. Or by then is it basically just too late to do anything?

I’ve read that Peracetic Acid can kill brown rot but maybe not stop it from reappearing. I need to do more research on it. @JoeReal made some mention of it when he was talking about his “Salad Dressing” spray. If it works it would be an organic spray that could be used a few days before harvest (it it’s not raining). Walmart had a clearance on a Peracetic Acid and peroxide produce for 1$ and bottle. I went back to the store yesterday to buy all of it but sadly it was gone.

Generally, for Captan the recommendation is if you receive 2 inches of rain you should reapply as soon as you can. In periods of frequent rainfall you probably should plan on spraying every 7-10 days. If your mixing it with Indar you could probably stay on the 14 day schedule since Indar is absorbed into the leaf tissue just like Myclobutanil. It’s also possible if you just went back to your original schedule where you sprayed Captan mixed with Myclobutanil you would be successful controlling brown rot. Myclobutanil is less effective than Indar but your last year’s experience shows it is probably effective enough.

Under Eastern conditions, most Universities, crop specialists and people on the forum find Captan and Indar to be much more effective fungicides for combating brown rot on peaches than Myclobutanil . The University of California reverses the effectiveness ratings as seen in this chart.

UC IPM: Fungicide Efficacy and Treatment Timing for Peach

Why I don’t know. Maybe they have a different strain of brown rot. Also they have a different climate may be that’s it.

It also appears that small green peaches can be infected with brown rot and show no symptoms. Later when the fruit ripen these dormant infections become active and suddenly you see brown rot everywhere. See this link

Also Captan, Sulfur and Daconil are protectant fungicides. They protect healthy leaf and fruit tissue by killing spores before the spores infect the leaves and fruit. They aren’t really effective once the fungus has infected the plant tissue. Some fungicides have a curative effect. Indar and Myclobutanil both do but still the curative effect is limited.

As far as why a fungicide is effective on one fungus and not another it comes down to the genetic differences between species. For example I take Tylenol and I am fine but Tylenol is lethal to cats. Both me and the cats are mammals so why is it toxic to cats and not to me? Basically, our genetics are different.

2 Likes

During intense rainy periods, yes. The Midwest spray guide recommends weekly up through shuck split, then 7-10 days for first cover, then 10 days for second cover, then 10-14 days for additional covers.

I would say that’s pretty much a max schedule, under the worst conditions. For example, I’ve not found it necessary to spray before shuck split, although we do get some catfacing on peaches, as a result. But we can generally thin those off.

Once the fruit is out of the protective shuck, then it’s game on. Insects want to destroy it, the rain wants to rot it, not to mention scab. We will spray weekly, if persistent heavy rains occur (we got 13" of rain in May). It’s impossible to grow peaches with this kind of rain, unless a protectant fungicide remains on the fruit. The rain is constantly washing it off. Even so the protectant will do it’s job in the process.

Once rain lets up, we back off to the 10 to 14 day spray intervals (again depending on how much/frequent rain occurs.

Once a peach shows brown rot, it’s done for. Some people have mentioned they have arrested brown rot on peaches with Indar, but for us, we can’t sell those.

In terms of products to control rot, cost is a consideration for us. So we typically don’t use the more expensive/acre products because we haven’t had to. In the beginning, when I started as a backyard grower, I used the more expensive stuff (Pristine, Elevate, etc.) because cost didn’t really matter. But when you start spraying acres, cost matters.

I mostly use Captan, Indar, propiconazole, and Topsin.

You’ll notice in the Midwest Fruit Pest Management guide (linked above) that the compounds rated excellent are generally azoles, or strobys. The problem with them is that they are at high risk for resistance buildup, from a commercial standpoint. The nice thing about captan is because of it’s multi site activity, fungi can’t develop resistance to it (at least not so far). Many times I use captan at the 1/2 rate along with an azole, which tends to provide excellent control.

If you are seeing some rot on peaches, you should be able to rescue the rest with a powerful azole, like Indar. Or use one of the powerful pre-mixes. That should save the rest of your peaches. As mroot mentions, strobys and azoles have systemic activity, which is why they can save your peaches, even if other peaches on the tree are showing symptoms. I don’t use the newer pre-mixes because they are very expensive, and up to this point, haven’t had to. Most of the pre-mixes also have systemic activity.

The systemic activity does prevent washoff. The problem is that the compound is either broken down quickly inside the fruit, or doesn’t stay in the skin long enough to give long term protection. So those really can’t help much more than a week, under heavy rain conditions.

Most fungicides we are discussing have a 0 PHI on peaches. There is an REI on captan.

With my captan and azole mix, I can generally keep rot on peaches to a bare minimum, even in the worst of weather. If it rains continually for a week before peaches ripen, sometimes they will look OK during picking, but they will start to rot very quickly once they counter ripen. There’s nothing to be done about that. I just explain to customers the extreme rainy circumstances, and reimburse them for any peaches for which this occurs.

TangOs is a particularly hard peach to protect from rot, even with an intense spray program. Other than that, other donut peaches I’ve grown have done fine with our spray program.

I once tried washing blackberries in a chlorine solution to try to extend their self life for a trip we took. The problem was they took on the flavor of the bleach and weren’t very good.

People have always tried home remedies for pest control, but the results are almost always significantly inferior to compounds manufactured specifically to treat the pest (I would say “always” except that someone may be able to offer an example to prove me wrong, so I’ll stick with “almost always”.)

I’ve heard of milk, hydrogen peroxide, vinegar, etc. While some of these may offer some benefit, they are going to be found wanting under serious pest pressure.

I don’t want to discourage anyone from trying home remedies, but for home growers, I would recommending testing on a small scale (i.e. one tree) vs. betting a whole year’s peach harvest on the experiment.

2 Likes

Indar is the magic bullet for managing BR in my part of NC. We only spray about twice a month unless we have a major rainfall of around 2 inches. We have very little BR even in a hot and wet central NC climate. Indar and Captan is a good combination. We rotate Merivon, or Pristine depending on what we have to reduce the number of Indar applications, I believe the max number of Indar applications is around 7 times per season which is more than we are comfortable with. Luna Sensation would be an excellent rotation partner too.

I read that Indar and other SI based fungicides are loosing their effectiveness against brown rot, I have not seen it personally but its smart to rotate other chemistries to help delay the resistance problems

Here is a excellent and short article on BR from MSU that describes these chemicals and the problems with the loss of effectiveness of Indar on BR

2 Likes

I’ve been on top of spraying a lot more this year. But my TangO is still rotting. Most other things are OK, though once in a while I find something with rot.

I’ve sprayed a lot more than in the past. My peaches & plums got:

4/10- Daconil (for blossom blight)
5/2- Infuse (propiconazole)
5/17- Luna Sensation
5/31- Indar
6/9- Indar
7/11- Indar

I probably need to get a better sprayer- I don’t think my 4 gal backpack gets it all the way up into the tops of the trees. And I don’t see myself carrying a ladder around when spraying- it’s hard enough work to run around with 30lbs of spray on my back…I suppose the other option is to just cut the trees lower.

Was it just the yellow tangO that was the rotter, or does the while one exhibit the same behavior?

1 Like

The white one (TangOs II) does better, but it probably cracks more. Both of them are hard to grow, imo.

Saturn is the most bullet proof donuts I’ve grown. I’m trying a new donut called Orion from ACN. I have no idea how easy it is to grow.

I’d forgotten about chlorothalonil. I try to make one application of that at shuck split.

I hear all of you folks talking about all the different things you spray and how often you spray, and many saying even though they sprayed so much, they still have problems… and need to possibly spray more… Makes my head spin.

You folks have got some determination for sure. I wish you the best.

I am seriously considering giving up on peaches myself…

Our near retirement plan includes selling our current home… so I will be starting over sometime in the next year or two in a new place — will I plant another peach tree… not sure about that. picking all those brown rot peaches off my last tree and disposing of those… is making me think NO on that.

Like Drew51 said… there are other things to grow.

In a couple years when I am asking you all what the most disease resistant, early peach is - remind me I said this please.

TNHunter

2 Likes

my dream is someday someone will breed a true z4 hardy peach i can grow here but listening to how much work it is to get clean fruit, i may reconsider seeing i have so many smaller fruit that needs 0 care to get a good crop. even apples i can grow resistant varieties and go no spray. from whgat ive read here thats impossible with peaches and apricots…

I have 3 peach trees and one apricot now… glutton for punishment :frowning:

I just noticed this post. What makes captan difficult is that it washes off in rain and commercial growers reapply it after every heavy rain. Without rain I guess it protects for about 2 weeks because a 2 week sched is usually what’s recommended.

I use Indar but prop. is supposed to be about as effective and is available from two companies in smaller quantities. Both are locally systemic and don’t wash off in rain, which is huge.

At most sites here I actually get peaches in with a single early summer app of Indar and Cap at highest rates. It never takes more than two as long as the customer isn’t looking for pristine fruit.

Drew’s comment about two varieties being more effective is not really embraced by commercial fruit growers to my knowledge. The reason they don’t depend on Indar and other single mode pesticides alone is the possible development of resistance, but as I keep writing here and seem to be yelling into the night, resistance is a much larger problem when you are managing thousands of same species trees at a single site.

I’ve never seen a study, but I have a hunch it takes more than 10 times as long on average to develop resistance at a site with a tenth of the trees. I’ve yet to have a site I manage develop resistance to Indar after 20 years.

This guide tells what materials you can use to get sound fruit. Spray Schedule- Synthetic Materials - #17 by MES111

@alan Did you mean to link to post #1 in the thread rather than post #17? Post #17 has been deleted.

Post #1

Steve,

The amount of fungal pest pressure really depends on the location. My guess is your location in zone 4 Maine wouldn’t have near the pest pressure in humid hot areas like TN or KY.

we dont have as much heat but summers still get pretty humid here. thunder storms in mid summer fuel it. its been mid 80’s and 70-80% humidity all week. of course the length of time its like that is much shorter.

1 Like