I am still in the early phases of establishing my trees/bushes but I have taken a look at the various excellent guides on what is required to get a reasonable amount of adequate fruit. Those of us from Ontario Canada look to be similarly establishing their fruit trees. Unfortunately the vast majority of products discussed here are not available in Canada due to restrictions.
I have had the pleasure of harvesting nearly flawless apples from an unsprayed front yard tree so perhaps with good orchard hygiene alone I will be successful. However I am realistic that the need to spray very well may arise.
Our local nurseries seem to tout the Holistic Spray schedule as per Michael Philips (Link to Silver Creek Nurseries Guide): Holistic Spray Recipie
Bagging fruit (with footies) is also recommended by Susan Poizner by the Orchard people. I have read the extensive discussions on this forum about success/failures with this approach.
The best resource I have found in regards to more conventional sprays are from the BC Government (scroll to the last page): BC Home Garden Fruit Spray Guide
The caveat here is that Sevin has just been taken off the market here and is no longer available.
It is also interesting to note that Surround is not available in Canada as far as I know (I think it has to do with the size it is sold in). I have read regular kaolin clay is likely not going to be effective, although I have not seen a report of anybody trialing it.
I do have children and therefore will endeavor to try thinks that leave them at as little risk as possible of course. I expect that most of us are trying to do this anyways.
I wonder if any of the more experienced growers here have any comments especially in regards to the more conventional options (pyrethrins/malathion). I also would welcome any other insights/resources people have in this regard.
@Piblarg, I do like to have sort of a control group and a regular bunch that I give more attention to for comparison. (surround, neem, holistic in general.) I planted 3 apples outside of my normal orchard area, and vowed to not spray or touch those trees, even to prune. They actually did really well in comparison to those I worried after, sprayed constantly, kept to strict central leader with whirling, put in branch stretchers, etc. It will be good to compare them as they get bigger. Sounds like that was your experience as well. Surely the unpruned will get wieldy and out of hand, but not yet (about 3 year old trees) No fruit on those trees yet, however. Just going by shape and vigor.
I don’t grow apples, I grow peaches and plums and these chemicals work well if used correctly. I don’t have to deal with codling moth as much as plum curcullio. Make sure to use in acidic water only. Put vinegar in to about a pH of 5.0. If you use tap water at 7.5 or higher malathion will work for about an hour. If you use it in water that has a pH of 5.0 it will work for 30 hours. One of the biggest mistakes new growers make is to spray at the wrong pH. Some chemicals require basic water, so one must figure this out for each chemical. I myself use rainwater for those pesticides requiring an acidic environment to extend it’s half life.
I realized that you are actually quite close to me. How bad is the plum curculio in your area? How frequently do find you end up needing to spray to keep things at bay? Are there any other major pests you find yourself fighting regularly?
I do spray and it is effective. It takes about 5 years for all the pests to find you. The first couple of years you may be fine, and give you a false sense of security. I know from going through it. I have to spray a regular schedule and do 5 or 6 sprays a year. I do though also grow fruits that do not need sprays, so many fruits I grow organically like mulberries, figs, jujubes, honeyberries etc.
In this area everything is here. I don’t really need to fight the codling moth, but they are all over.
I do battle the Spotted Winged Drosophila fruit fly, yellowjackets, PC, stink bugs, snails. Brown rot is a biggy with peaches. Many leaf fungi around too, shot hole, peach leaf curl and rust on my figs. I also have problems with grapes, but lime sulfur will kill the various grape leaf and fruit fungi. Mummy berry etc.
Disease pressure is high, but a lot worse in other areas. So yes expect to see all of the above, but may take as long as five years before they find you.
If I was in Canada I probably would not grow apples, peaches, or plums. Which are the fruits that need the most sprays. I guess you will find out soon enough. If you find them too tough replace with no spray fruits. Blackberries, raspberries, mulberries, paw paws, jujubes, Shipova, maybe hazelnuts etc.
You can bag the fruit. Apples are easy if the tree isn’t too tall and you can use ziploc bags. Peaches are harder since the fruit may rot in the bag. People use clemson bags or other porous bagging material to allow the peaches to dry out.
Here is a study on the effectiveness of bagging apples.
Thanks for this.
I have definaly read some of the bagging threads.
Everyone’s experience seems to be variable and while I am trying to be prepared as my trees start getting into production.
I do use bags a little. Since I produce hundreds of fruits it’s too much work to bag them all. I have tried to plant plants that attract beneficial insects. That has been fun. And works to some degree. Having done this close to a decade now my garden is well established, very fruitful, I enjoy dried fruit all winter. I have a number of syrups which are fantastic. My wife made two peach pies yesterday with homemade crust that is to die for! The peaches were so flavorful. Nothing like anything you can buy. I dry figs and snack on them all winter. I make fig newtons with them too. I like the flavored fig newtons so I add say black currant syrup with water to rehydrate and make a jam like filling. Wow! Blows away anything you can buy. I love adding unusual top quality fruiting plants you cannot even buy. Like white strawberries that taste like pineapple then finish with a classic strawberry flavor. Such a rich flavor and stunning appearance. Western blackberries will blow away anything you can buy. I never realized how good blackberries can be until I started growing western trailing blackberries. Tayberries are a raspberry- blackberry cross. Yet taste like neither. The closest fruit that taste like them are strawberries. Not tart at all. Delicious!
This is why I grow fruit. You cannot buy these fantastic flavors you have to grow them. Doing this almost ten years has been an absolute joy.
I’m in Southern Ontario and a few years in on the food gardening.
I’ve only started to seriously try and deal with pests in the past couple of years when it started to impact production a ton. The biggest issue is plum curculio. I’m not sure how possible it will be to control them organically. I had hopes I might be able to try some surround but no luck there. I’ve been much more careful about picking up all falls and will be trying tanglefoot on all the vulnerable trees this year.
I have been using dormancy spray for a couple of years and it makes a huge difference with coddling moth. My pears and sour cherries see a few hits, but nothing major now. There are too many feral stuff around to ever fully control those.
Mostly, I otherwise stick to stuff that doesn’t need spraying. The haskap, Saskatoons, kiwi and raspberries do fine with a bit of hand picking control for picnic and Asian beetles. (Friends have had serious problems with ab, but they didn’t get on them early)
I did pick up a proper garden sprayer this year to the dormancy oil since the stuff is too harsh for the cheap ones.
My orchard is only 4 years old and I have been using Michael Phillips’s “recipe” since the beginning. I have been very happy with the results. A small infestation begins? A little neem oil is sprayed… As simple as that. I don’t even use dormancy spray. To say that all my fruits are looking perfect would be a lie but 90% of them can be eaten, some with the help of a knife if you see what I mean. I don’t target or aim for fruit perfection but neem oil does the trick for me.
I sprayed my fruit trees (in the urban yard) with dormant oil but the forecast was incorrect and the next day the temp fell to -1. The whole yard was covered with frost; when it melted b 10 am my trees were wet to the touch.
I am worried that I have damaged my trees ( 3 of them are two years old) with this premature spraying.
I checked several websites, they all say dormant oil should be applied when there is no danger of frost within 24 hours but before the buds open. However, I could not find the info about what happens if the frost still occurs., Will the bark be damaged?
Probably fine. Has happened to me as well. I think the main thing is to spray early in the morning so it has the full day to dry. I mix with lime sulfure for my spring dormant spray.