Tony, which variety of persimmon is the flat one at the back?
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Tam Kam non astringent Kaki. One of the best in size and sweetness.
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Great, thanks. I will try to get it.
Does anyone here have the noriss variety? My friend is eager to find it because, supposedly, fruits earlier. He have some female plant but majority of the fruits drops, or those which dont fall of can’t ripen on time. I read that dropping may be from weather conditions or plant age. We speak for usda hardiness zone 6b. I’m grateful for any info.
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I bought Seedless Che from Etsy, grafted on Maclura, which was really weird looking, even with long roots somehow looping few times before putting into plastic bag… and it seems “looping” plant spent at least a year there, with worms…
It spent Winter in a pot, in a basement, graft union was too weak to plant it outside.
https://growingfruit.org/t/che-fruit-maclura-rootstock-cudrania-tricuspidata-does-it-look-good/24653
After reading this forum posts I found myself not willing to waste time or space on it 
so I’ll plant it in fabrics pot to see what can grow from it and probably I’ll give it away. I am in zone 6b, Toronto, Canada, with roses still flowering in October-November, and super hot Summers.
Question:
Should I plant is with graft union below soil? I think I should. Maclura graft is used only as propagation method, and if tree will make its’ own roots then better chances for better healthy tree. Am I right?
Grafting to Osage Orange prevents suckering so burring the graft union would be rather counter productive.
I have had my che in fabric pots in NJ overwinter outside for over a year and they have not done well. The female is growing but my male i think died from the roots up.
I
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Che is a really tough plant it’s a surviver…the graft doesn’t look to bad but it looks really recent, like it hasn’t put on much callus growth. Anyway, if you plant it with the graft union below ground it will certainly grow its own roots which results in heavy suckering which is exactly what you want to avoid and why it is grafted onto Maclura. I would keep it in a pot for another season in good potting soil so it can really put on some growth and then plant it outside next season. I must say that zone 6b is a bit tricky, I’m not really sure it is sufficiently hardy in 6b. I also don’t think it will fruit on its own. Che will set seedless fruit on its own in Mediterranean conditions but I don’t think it will work in 6b. I grow Che in zone 8a and I always graft a male branch on the female tree if space is lacking or I advise customers to plant a male tree next to the female tree. The fruit will then be seeded but it always ripens. Without pollination the fruit doesn’t grow bigger than pea size and finally drops off near the end of the season…
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I decided to put my two 4 years old Che trees in the ground last Fall and buried the bark grafted unions 1 foot deep in the ground for insurance. They both surprised me and woke up this Spring as they handled the -12 F low for a few nights with hardly any died back.
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I had Che here in 6b for years; it fruited on its own without benefit of a partner.
It woke up dead last year… but it had become enveloped and overshadowed, over the years, by an ever-thickening encroaching thicket of callery pear seedlings, courtesy of the local birds.
Have a friend who had Che, for years, in the mountains near Bristol TN/VA… originally had both ‘male’ and ‘female’ trees… male died, and female continued to fruit with no apparent decrease in crop.
Another friend, in LA, said he’d seen thickets of thorny Che, on its own roots, that you’d need a bulldozer to get through.
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Zone 7a, Afton Virginia, “Edible Landscaping” nursery, seedless variety, they say it tastes like best figs, video: Che
I also read in many places that Che female will have seedless fruits if there is no male variety around.
Thanks for mentioning suckering, I forgot about it. But it may behave differently at my location.
There are some principles to follow to make plants to survive in colder zones; I tested it with potted roses and potted rare Japanese maples, all survived; and as we know if my zone is 6 I should think that potted plants will be in zone 4.
- Stop fertilizing in August, allow plant to harden wood
- Water very deeply few times before first frosts
- Plant must have deep roots to reach unfrozen layers
- Plant will die not because of frosts but because of super sunny days in January-February when temps are around -23F (-30C). Plant must be in a shade.
For instance, I moved my potted plants in a shade; in a spot adjacent to house (warmer spot); surrounded with other pots. It became zone 7 there. I didn’t wrap my tall Harp Japanese Maple at all, and it is absolutely healthy.
My Che is looking very good now. After watching this video I believe this is the same variety. It is still in a pot, I need to at least ensure graft union fully healed. I will plant it with graft union above soil, I like planting trees with roots at the surface.
P.S. Almost forgot… grafted trees: so many zone 7 trees can grow very well in zone 4 if rootstock is suitable. And Maclura (rootstock) grows in extreme conditions, it became invasive in 13 US states.
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** I must say that zone 6b is a bit tricky, I’m not really sure it is sufficiently hardy in 6b. I also don’t think it will fruit on its own.**
I’ve got a 10+ year old Che in my front yard that is 20 feet tall and rarely loses a branch to winter chill that would beg to differ… Oh yeah, mine is the Edible Landscaping seedless variety.
Though I will tell you it has never ripened a single fruit for me in all that time. It forms fruits, they hold well, develop but at around dime-size they drop, still hard and un-ripe. I’m not sure if I’m looking at a pollenation issue, which would be difficult to solve as I have no room for a second plant and at this point, adding a male nearby impossible.
Scott
Your killing me with this one.
Graft on a male branch!!!
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Maclura became invasive???
How do you give that designation to a local plant that was here before any of use were here?
I should, but its likely too late to source one for this year.
Its going to be a pain to graft onto. Its very umbrella shaped and those thorns…
Scott
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I was under the impression that Che where only thorny when young. Perhaps the original root stock took over?
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I am always surprised how big a difference there is in zones and locations in the country. Here is what my Che looks like today. It is just finishing the flowering stage.
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Mark,
You only have one Che tree and very productive is that right?
If anyone is looking for a source of Che in central Europe, here are two nurseries that offer the plant. They also have interesting descriptions of the varieties which I’ve translated.
Horticulture Limbach, a Slovakian nursery, sells several varieties and a male pollinator, all grafted on Maclura.
http://www.shop.zahradnictvolimbach.sk/en/Rare-Fruit-Trees-For-Sale/che-chinese-mulberry
The Che is native to many parts of eastern Asia from the Shandong Province of China to the Nepalese sub-Himalayas. It requires minimal care and has a tolerance of drought and poor soils similar to that of the related mulberry. Young wood is thorny but looses its thorns as it matures. The fruit is not a berry but a collective fruit, in appearance somewhat like a round mulberry crossed with a lychee. The ripe fruits are an attractive red or maroon-red color with a juicy, rich red flesh inside. The stem does not bleed white sap when the fruit is picked fully ripe. Fruit ripens on the tree individually, not all at once, and does not ripen further once picked. It is important that the fruits be thoroughly ripe to be at their best. Che requires a full sun location and will grow in a range of soil types. Deep, well drained loam is the best. Medium, regular yields. If a pollinator is nearby, yield is higher. The tree begins to bear at an early age. It tends to drop ripening fruit when very young but gets better at retention with age. No pests or diseases have been noted.
Seedless:
- Growth: fast growing, spreading bush or small tree
- Flowers: Can bear fruits without pollination, doesn’t need a pollinator with male flowers
- Ripeness: the fruits ripen in November
- Taste: when fully soft, ripe fruits develop a watermelon-like flavor. The sugar content is similar to that of a ripe fig.
- Hardiness: zones 5-9
Norris:
This cultivar was discovered by nurseryman Cliff England on the site of the TVA’s Norris Dam in northern Tennessee.
- Growth: fast growing
- Flowers: Can bear fruits without pollination, doesn’t need a pollinator with male flowers
- Picking season: the fruits ripen in August
- Taste: when fully soft ripe fruits develop a watermelon-like flavor.
- Hardiness: zones 5-9
Darrow:
Early ripening sedless variety, the tree is only moderately growing compared to other strongly growing cultivars.
- Breeder: Dr. George M. Darrow
- Growth: moderately growing, compared to other strongly growing cultivars
- Flowers: Female flowers of variety Darrow need a pollinator with male flowers. If pollinator is nearby yield is higher.
- Picking season: the fruits ripen in August
- Taste: when fully soft, ripe fruits develop a cantaloupe to papaya flavor.
- Hardiness: zones 5-10
The German nursery Hortensis also offers two varieties on their own roots:
http://www.hortensis.de/pflanzen/suchergebnis.html?suche=cudrania
Seedless Che:
- Bush or small tree
- Parthenocarpic seedless fruit
- Discovered in Greenwood/Virginia/USA
- Hardy below -20°C
- Taste of fruit reminds one of sweet watermelon
- Propagated by cuttings, on its own roots
- Trouble-free, bears at an early age. Related to fig and mulberry
- Around 3 meters
- Preferably pickup by customer, 1 litre pot, price upon request, available in August
Norris:
- Parthenocarpic seedless fruit
- Superior to ‘Seedless Che’ in all aspects; more vigorous, faster development, bigger fruit (up to 5 cm in diameter), fruit ripens earlier (late September, early October)
- Has supposedly withstood -27°C in Turkey on its own roots with no damage
- Propagated by cuttings, on its own roots. The common Maclura rootstock dies at around -20°C. This variety is the only one that grows as fast on its own roots as it does when grafted
- Around 4 meters
- Preferably pickup by customer, 1 litre pot, available in August
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