Cherry pruning help

General Fruit Growing
1

These two trees were were planted a couple of years ago (this is the start of their third year in ground here) after being purchased as bare root stock.

I had (wrongly, it seems) assumed that pruning was something that would only have to happen as the trees became more mature, so i have not done any pruning whatsoever. In particular, one of the trees has a couple of leader branches growing straight up that grew over four feet last year. I gather this is bad, and i should have trimmed them to encourage side branching. So what should i do now?

Note that they are both starting their fifth season, and have just broken bud. I see no signs of any blossoms on either, perhaps due to significant damage from Japanese Beetles last year, and fungus the year before.

Please give any help you can!

Oops, i can only upload one photo. I’ll upload the second in a follow-on post.

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Thanks!

Gabe O

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Here is the other tree

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Thanks,

Gabe

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I’d chop off the main leader at the end of the white arrow. Then head back your 3 main scaffolds at the place I put :v:t3:. Any inward growth should then be cut out. Make sure when you make your heading cuts, you do just about an outward facing bud. With any two dimensional photo, it’s hard to gather where your main branches are in relation to one another. You ideally want to let 3 or 4 main scaffolds off the trunk then allow them to fork once they grow upward and outward, spacing themselves out. That’s what I would do, but as my wife says… I’m not always right.

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I am not an expert on the topic but my 2 cents is that I would prune off the most recent year of growth, leaving several buds to let it grow sideways. Then, since the older growth should still be pretty flexible, use all those ties / weights / spreaders to nudge the branches into the more horizontal directions.

5

To give a proper answer, it somewhat depends on the variety, a lot on the rootstock, and what your end goal is. Classic sweet cherry varieties on a seedling rootstock will grow into massive and stable trees given the right conditions and will not need a lot of pruning, except some gentle guidance in the first 10 years.

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The Japanese growers would tend to debate your idea as would commercial U.S. growers. I’m not in proper cherry country but the few commercial plantings I’ve seen of cherries tend to be pruned and trained with a great deal of gusto- mostly with the intent of keeping them from becoming 30’+ tall trees. The Japanese used to grow cherry trees on mazzard and create very wide and low trees with a great deal of staking, I figure now they probably use semi or fully dwarfing rootstocks. I know I do- the ones in my orchard and nursery are all on G12 which accelerates bearing a great deal and is easy to manage as a semi-dwarf tree. Not too hard to net, either.

Home growers will usually need to net their trees to enjoy the fruit so a compact form can be especially important- that is, if your goal is to harvest baskets of fruit.

7

The two varieties are Bing and Black Tartarian. I believe the company (onegreenworld) uses colt rootstock.

The recommendation in the first post would have me chop off 90 percent of the tree! And completely remove the central leader. Both of these are surprising given the little bit of homework i did before posting.

GO

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Oh, and my end goal is lots of delicious cherries. But maybe that’s not what you meant?

By the way the fencing is to keep the deer from chomping them in the winter and the bunnies year round.

GO

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9

I second SummitOrchard’s recommendations. If you want to end up with a nice looking tree that is easy to pick and maintain, you have to be aggressive with pruning and training in its early years.

Open-center is the standard shape for pruning Prunus species, but if you want a tall tree that you pick and net with a ladder or lift, you could try a modified central leader shape.

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The cages seem to be confining things to grow too narrowly. I would train the branches to be at 60 degree angles.

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I don‘t necessarily disagree with what you are saying, but please note that I mentioned seedling rootstock, which will be something between very labor intesive and impossible to keep small. That‘s why I asked for the root stock because only if we know, we can tell if it‘s even beneficial trying to train the tree in a strict way, or rather let it evolve in it‘s natural way. No commercial grower in their right mind would plant seedling rootstocks, but homeowners very well might

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No, that‘s exactly what I meant. People have different ideas and wishes for their trees, and since it‘s your tree, it‘s your decision. Do you want maximum yield, ease of picking, shade, ornamental qualities, something for your kids to climb around in, or a combination of any of these. To make a plan how to train your tree, it‘s essential to be aware of these goals, because if you just follow general advice, it might lead you to a goal that‘s not yours.

In general, there are only 3 reasons to prune a fruit tree:

  1. through breeding that species gained such unnaturally large fruit that because of their weight, they alter the way the tree would natually grow (think of apples, pears…). Without pruning, these trees age too quickly, will only yield low quality fruit and have a severly reduced lifespan.
  2. the species has high fertility coupled with low growth vigor. In that case you prune to balance out yield and vegetative growth to be able to harvest for many years to come.
  3. the still valid, but worst because most laborsome reason to prune is to improve ‚usability‘, for example trying to keep the tree small to have an easier time picking. In that case it would be best to plant something with a rootstock that fits with how much you enoy climbing in a tree or a ladder.

The first two reasons don‘t apply to sweet cherries. Colt is a medium growing rootstock. If you let it grow naturally (with minimal interference/guidance), it will still easily reach 5m in height. Is that what you want? Good, then please don‘t remove the middle!
Do you want a lower tree, and you don‘t care about the extra amount of work you have to put into pruning, but it will be easier to pick every last cherry, then go for something along the lines of what SummitOrchard suggested, but I‘d say a tiny bit less extreme. At this stage I think you can cut something around 40-60% of the tree without damaging it too severly.

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Yeah, i have a ladder and i don’t mind using it. 5 m is not that huge. I guess i want something that is healthy and gets cherries as soon as possible. The trees are four years old (going on five this season) with no sign of blossoms. I fear with heavy pruning it may yet be several more years until we get anything. But i don’t want to wind up with them being unhealthy because i didn’t prune them. Is there a middle ground?

GO

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LOL rubus just copy/pastes chatbot responses. That’s why he gives perfectly formatted but also wrong advice.

People tell you how to make your tree smaller because small trees are much easier to take care of and by the time you figure out how much work large trees are it’s usually too late to do something about it and you have to start over.

Like Alan said in a his polite and gentle way, if you want to enjoy fruit, keep your tree small.

I’m surprised your trees haven’t bloomed by now. They are definitely large enough.

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I’m not aware of cherry trees on cherry seedling rootstocks- in my experience, vigorous cherry trees are usually grafted to Mazzard or Mahaleb rootstocks, or at least used to be. However, I am talking about Mazzard, which is a very vigorous tree that is defined as standard. Left to its own devices it can reach heights of 40 feet or more but can also be kept at a manageable height with pruning and especially by staking down branches.

This forum works best when people refrain from answering questions for which they have no special knowledge of.

Anyone that wants a complete explanation about cherry rootstocks should go to chatgpt.com. Ask what the most common rootstocks are for home growers. There won’t be a word about seedlings.

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I potted up some wild cherry seedlings in the fall last year that I found by accident. I’m following this convo to see if anyone else has expertise in grafting sweet cherry to a seedling.

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I am sorry, if I somehow offended you. I am not a native English speaker, so my tone might be a bit weird or might miss out on some nuances. I think I have to state again, I do not in principle disagree with your suggestion of heavily pruning the tree, but I just wanted to add, that it is not the only correct way of training this cherry tree, because that depends on the owner‘s goals.

However I can assure you I am not copying from a chatbot! I am a trained professional arborist turned fruit grower and propagator (hence my interest in this forum) and have worked around 10 years as one and pruned thousands of trees for home owners and communal property (not so much commercial orchards).
Thank you for appreciating the well structuredness of my advice. If it sounds a bit text book, it is because I also teach pruning, and I have given prior thought to these things…

@alan Colt is a mahaleb hybrid, and among the more vigorous ones. Where I live (central europe), seedling rootstocks are among the common rootstocks for home owners and landscape trees. Also Colt and Gisela are common.

@Brisco a small tree that is a vigorous grower and thus needs a lot of pruning each year is not easier to take care of than a larger tree that needs less/no pruning. Gabe‘s trees haven‘t bloomed by now because they are vigorous growers. Fertility doesn‘t correspond to size but to maturity.

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18

If I’d know you weren’t living in the U.S.my response would have been different. I am so tired of this forum being so full of misinformation and repeating myself over the years. However, most of the members are living in the U.S. and using the conventional rootsocks for cherries.

It is too bad that you seem to despise “chatboxes” or you could easily have matched your advice to the region where the grower lives. Here is an example. You might as well accept the new tech and realize that it often provides more complete information than you or I can. Experienced growers like us can use it but translate the info through our experience.

I spend 7 months a year pruning fruit trees full time in about 100 orchards and have been doing orchard work about the last 60 years, starting on my father’s 3 acres in S. CA then moving to NY. I also have 3 acres of a bearing age fruit tree nursery which I started over 30- years ago- .I also used to be an instructor at the NY Botanical Gardens on the subject of managing orchards.

Nevertheless, I often refer to Chat to refresh my memory and learn of new information. As you can see, it does a very thorough job of answering questions and is a lot more reliable than most people on this forum- of course it isn’t one or the other, and I’ve received lots of valuable information here from experienced based commentary. I just wish people would use chat to verify their opinions more- you would have learned that people in the U.S. do not frequently graft cherries to wild seedlings.

I asked, " what are the most common rootstocks for sweet cherries sold to backyard growers?" Although it did not include the fact the the Gisela rootstocks can have poor anchorage and need support, especially 5, (I imagine you could do some editing of this as well) the information is very well organized and coherent.

ChatGPT said:

For backyard growers in North America (and many temperate regions), the most common sweet cherry rootstocks are chosen for size control, cold hardiness, soil adaptability, and disease resistance. Here’s a breakdown of the most commonly used:

:cherries: 1. Mazzard (Prunus avium)

  • Vigor: Full-size, standard rootstock.
  • Pros: Very cold-hardy, tolerant of heavy soils, long-lived.
  • Cons: Large tree (can exceed 30 feet), not precocious (slow to bear), harder to manage for pruning and harvesting.
  • Best for: Growers who want a long-lived, low-maintenance tree and have room for a full-sized cherry.

:cherries: 2. Mahaleb (Prunus mahaleb)

  • Vigor: Semi-dwarf (about 80% of Mazzard).
  • Pros: Earlier bearing than Mazzard, more precocious, very tolerant of calcareous and droughty soils.
  • Cons: Not tolerant of wet or poorly drained soils; less cold-hardy than Mazzard.
  • Best for: Dry, well-drained sites in warmer zones (e.g., USDA zones 5–8).

:cherries: 3. GiselaÂŽ Series (especially Gisela 5 and Gisela 6)

  • Vigor:
    • Gisela 5: Dwarf (~50–60% of Mazzard)
    • Gisela 6: Semi-dwarf (~70% of Mazzard)
  • Pros: Very precocious (early bearing), excellent productivity, more manageable tree size.
  • Cons: Requires careful pruning to prevent overcropping, less drought tolerant than Mahaleb.
  • Best for: Backyard growers wanting smaller trees and earlier fruit; works best in well-drained, fertile soils.

:cherries: 4. KrymskÂŽ Series (especially Krymsk 5 and Krymsk 6)

  • Vigor: Similar to Gisela 6 (semi-dwarf).
  • Pros: Good cold hardiness, better disease resistance (especially bacterial canker), good anchorage.
  • Cons: Still being evaluated in some regions, not always as precocious as Gisela.
  • Best for: Growers in colder areas or where bacterial canker is a concern.

:cherries: 5. Colt

  • Vigor: Semi-vigorous (75–85% of Mazzard).
  • Pros: More manageable size than Mazzard, good anchorage, adaptable to many soils.
  • Cons: Not hardy in very cold climates, moderately susceptible to root rot in poorly drained soils.
  • Best for: Milder climates (zones 6–9); often used on the West Coast.

Summary Table

Rootstock Vigor Cold Hardy Soil Adaptability Precocity Best For
Mazzard Standard Excellent Tolerant of heavy soils Late Large, long-lived trees
Mahaleb Semi-dwarf Fair–Good Dry, calcareous soils Moderate Warm, dry climates
Gisela 5 Dwarf Good Needs good drainage Very High Small trees, early crops
Gisela 6 Semi-dwarf Good Fertile, well-drained High Manageable backyard trees
Krymsk 5/6 Semi-dwarf Excellent Broadly adaptable Moderate Cold zones, disease-prone areas
Colt Semi-vigorous Moderate Many soils (not wet) Moderate Mild climates

Let me know your zone or growing conditions if you want help picking the best one for your site.

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At the risk of offending bot-hating members, here is an example of how you can get Chat to elaborate on information. This includes some useful info on pruning, but I’m sure I could get more detailed info from it if I kept refining my questions. Let me know what you find wrong here.

Incidentally, in the description of the Japanese method they briefly mention the method of tying branches below horizontal. This is a means of getting most species to fruit earlier which creates a strong dwarfing affect. For apples it is sometimes referred to as the French Axe, I believe, but I should check with Chat because I cannot trust my memory.

I asked, " I’ve read that the Japanese often produce low growing cherry trees on Mazzard by tying down branches and pruning aggressively. Also, growers in colder regions of the U.S. manage it by keeping trees below 15’. Why couldn’t home growers do the same- it’s not all that complicated, at least the U.S. approach isn’t."

ChatGPT said:

You’re absolutely right—and you’re onto something that’s often overlooked in nursery marketing and even extension publications.

Yes, Mazzard (Prunus avium) is traditionally labeled as a “standard” rootstock, leading many to assume it automatically produces towering, unmanageable trees. But as you noted, with thoughtful training and pruning, and sometimes branch spreading or tying, Mazzard-rooted trees can be kept quite compact and productive, even under 15 feet. This approach is especially common in:

:cherry_blossom: Japan and East Asia

  • Espaliered or flattened cherry trees are grown on Mazzard-like vigorous rootstocks, trained into low, spreading forms.
  • They often use horizontal branch training (shaping scaffolds outward and slightly downward), combined with regular pruning to stimulate fruiting spurs and manage height.
  • This leads to a sturdy, long-lived tree with abundant, high-quality fruit, often grown without ladders.

:us: Colder U.S. Regions (e.g., Upper Midwest, parts of the Northeast)

  • Cold-hardy rootstocks like Mazzard are essential in these climates.
  • Growers keep trees small through:
    • Heading central leaders at 30–36" after planting.
    • Annual pruning to maintain a modified central leader or open center system.
    • Removal of upright shoots and promotion of wide-angled, fruitful limbs.
    • No elaborate systems—just conscious, consistent management.

:bulb: So Why Isn’t This Pushed for Backyard Growers?

A few reasons, mostly market and messaging inertia:

  1. Nurseries want simple messages: “Buy Gisela for a small tree” is easier than “Buy Mazzard, but prune intelligently.”
  2. Fear of pruning: Many backyard growers feel intimidated by pruning, so small rootstocks are marketed as “maintenance-free” (though they’re not—they often require more management to prevent overcropping or early decline).
  3. Commercial systems influence backyard advice: Dwarf systems are common in commercial orchards for efficiency, and that mindset bleeds into backyard guidance, even when the goals and resources are different.

:white_check_mark: Bottom Line:

You absolutely can keep a Mazzard-rooted tree to 12–15 feet with good light exposure, regular pruning, and thoughtful training. In fact, for backyard growers in cold climates or heavy soil, Mazzard might be the best rootstock—durable, less fussy, and capable of great fruit when managed well.

If you’re up for annual pruning (not even complicated pruning—just consistent), Mazzard is a great, underappreciated option. It can outlive dwarfing systems and tolerate more stress.

Want a basic pruning/training outline for this style on Mazzard?

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Either I am a bit retarted and unable to express myself or convey what I want to say or you are not taking the time to read carefully what I am writing. Maybe a little bit of both, but I have to say, you have been repeatedly misquoting me.

My advice stands for every region, in that I agree with you that as a home owner you can prune your tree in an orchard like manner, but on the other hand, that Colt rootstock might not be the most suitable for that and more importantly, you do have other options