Chip Budding apples on young green seedlings?

General Fruit Growing
#21

I did not use soil. I used promix straight in the 18s. When I transplanted them to the 1 gal, I used a 50/50 of promix and some shredded bark.

#22

Here is a picture of one of the seedling I grafted tonight with the suggestions from this thread:

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#23

I chip budded a few more today. They were a bit smaller in caliper but larger than the dormant scions whose buds Iā€™m removing. This time I did not remove any of the top of the seedling.

Here is another question:

One of the reasons I removed the entire top of the tree on my first few attempts is that I wanted my buds to be the dominant bud, the highest on the tree. However, folks above suggested that removing more than 1/3 of the tree could be problematic. These trees were started under lights and grew quickly they are very spindly. What do you think of the idea of leaving the entire tree intact, but tying the top of the tree back down to the container and then chip budding at the bend so the buds are at the highest point?

#24

I see you missunderstood it a bit. As long as there are a few leaves above the top chip bud you can remove the rest if you want. The leaves above the bud are important because not always, but often if there are no leaves left that part of the limb with no leaves dries out. The leaves keep the flow of juices. Once the buds take and begin growing you can remove everything above them.

#25

So are you suggesting that I should remove all the leaves below the chip buds? With batch 2, I removed the top 1/3 and selected a spot with sufficient caliper to bud. I removed leaves where I budded and left leaves above and below the buds.

#26

The inserted bud doesnā€™t need to be high on the plant until after it has healed in. Once itā€™s healed and you can see that the inserted bud is viable, then you cut off the stock above the bud. You donā€™t want the bud to push before itā€™s healed. So donā€™t try to force it to grow for at least two weeks. Thatā€™s about how long I wait during warm weather.

#27

Thanks! I will wait a couple weeks before doing anything.

#28

Keep them.

Thatā€™s fine.

#29

Part of the confusion may be the last picture I posted. You need to click on the picture to see the entire thing. I just realized that what shows in the post is just the top section of the tree I left intact. The parafilm-M on the top is just to seal the cut. There is nothing budded at the top of the tree. When you click on the picture itself, you will see the budding section much lower on the tree.

#30

I think I may be seeing a chip bud beginning to swell and turn green. I realize it is too early to declare success.

However, it did encourage me enough to transplant into a 3 gal Rootbuilder II:

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#31

11 days to take and brake is great!

#32

So far, my overall success rate is not great. It seems that so far, the seedlings cut back the most sever are the ones showing success. I have no takes so far on trees that were not cut back at all or only had the top third removed. Here are my two best so far:

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They have been transplanted to 3 gal RB2s since they look like they will succeed. The upper one had two buds take. Iā€™ll probably remove the lower bud and flowers in a few days from that one.

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#33

Are you counting the ones like those on the right as not a success? It is very well possible that the bud took, but all of the auxin being produced above the scion bud is holding it dormant. If you remove the seedling above the scion bud, it is very possible it will grow.

In my experience (n=2, ha!) at this point in the late spring it is entirely possible to induce the bud to grow by cutting the plant off above the bud.

#34

Iā€™m not counting them as success yet, but I have not counted them as failure yet. I know some buds have failed. One of the seedlings that took had the lower chip bud take. When I was pretty sure, I cut it off just above the one that took. I did a post mortem on the upper bud and it clearly failed.

This was my first try at chip budding so some of the issue is my inexperience. If you read back up the thread, folks suggested I was cutting off too much of the tree so I tried some of their suggestions. Iā€™m at the point now where I think Iā€™ll start cutting back some of the others. My objective is to get them to break dormancy and grow out this summer.

I may have misunderstood some of the advice folks provided. They may have meant for me to only take the top 1/3 off at grafting time, then wait several weeks for the buds to take, and then cut back the tree hard. I think Iā€™ll try that with some of them to see if I can force breaking dormancy.

Thanks,

Jack

#35

Hi Jack:

You donā€™t need to cut anything off when you place the bud. Then if the bud takes cut off just above the bud but not so close as to damage the scion bud or the union area. If your graft fails you donā€™t need to cut off anything. I wait two weeks after T budding to decide if the bud has taken. A chip bud should be the same.

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#36

The problem is that Iā€™m not sure how to decide if a bud has taken if it does not break dormancy. Iā€™m chip budding from dormant scions since it is early to collect bud sticks. Iā€™m trying push the envelop here Iā€™m sure. It seems that the seedlings I cut back hard pushed the buds. So far there is no sign of swelling from trees I did not cut back or only cut back 1/3.

I chip budded them a few per night. It has been over 2 weeks for some of them but not all.

#37

That is how I do it, because I like to play safe. Once I see the bud took I cut the top, and even here I play safe and leave one or two leaves above the bud until it brakes, and just then I completely remove the top.

As already said 2 weeks is enough time to take. Then you can remove the tape and check. If after a few days the chip looks fresh and is well attached that usually (but frankly not always) means that it took, so you can cut the top.

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#38

You can tell if the chip bud has taken by gently scraping the bark after 2-3 weeks. If the bark is green it has taken. If brown it has died. I mark all mine with a tag and budding date.

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#39

One lesson I learned in terms of marking is marking the buds themselves. I found Iā€™m getting leaf out of other buds (not my chip buds) through the parafilm. At first, I thought some of these were takes but on close inspection I found they were not the buds.

Iā€™m now taking a sharpie and actually making an arrow on the parafilm directly under each chip bud so I know for sure it is my bud, not another from the original tree.

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#40

You may want to try a few bark grafts. I got good results with them this spring for tiny scions. I had a lot of success with much smaller scions, than those in the picture. The ones in the pic are a bit large for this branch, but would make a good size for a larger stock. Regardless, it (and a majority of the others) took:

Iā€™ve been trying chip and t buds for a while and now Iā€™ve finally gotten to a non-zero resultā€¦Actually, I think I may be up to 20% for the peach buds I did last summer. I did a lot of them- so many (60+) that I didnā€™t mark down all of the locations in enough detail (I figured they probably wouldnā€™t take anyways, so I just marked down the tree and general quadrant). So, even though I got some takes, I need to wait for fruit to figure out which succeeded. In contrast, bark grafting worked right away and at a much higher rate.

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