Comparing specific blackberries on flavour/yield

[FruitfulHarvest]

I read a huge part of the “favorite blackberry” thread on this site and I would like to start a more detailed comparison between several varieties.

The varieties that I’m interested in are

• Newberry (flavour)
• Kotata
• Obsidian
  .
• Illini (“wild blackberry” flavour)
• Darrow
  .
• Kiowa (yield)
• Columbia Giant

My ideal blackberry (or hybrid) is one that combines huge yields with a long harvest window, and flavourwise it is complex and rich, and full (i.e. not watery). I will consume most blackberries fresh.

I’m currently not experiencing any pests and though it should have some frost resistance it is not very important to me in my oceanic 7b/8a (Netherlands).

@Drew51 spoke highly of Newberry so currently it is at the top of my list. In the past when looking at Obsidian, Marion, and Silvan I chose Silvan. It has a much higher yield/harvest window compared to Marion with a very similar flavour. I don’t know why I preferred it over Obsidian.

@TNHunter spoke highly of Illini because of the “wild blackberry flavour” and Drew got the Darrow for the same reason so I’m also interested in those. I have no idea what to expect though. Does “wild blackberry” mean it is comparable to R. armeniacus (i.e. himalayan giant), which has spread in the wild everywhere?

Kiowa and Columbia Giant should have exceptional yields but I’m not sure on the flavour aspect (fresh eating).

I would love to hear from you if you are able to directly compare two or more cultivars from your direct experience! Hence I would especially love to hear from Drew and TNHunter

[Drew51]

Unfortunately, I won’t be around all that much.
I’ll respond when I can. Well the Darrow I had was mislabeled. I have since been looking at some thornless varieties. I decided I’m going to have to cross them to get what I’m need. Nothing sold works well enough here.
I am still interested in heirlooms. Rain tree recently added Olympia blackberry, so trying that one out. I tried some others but they failed to thrive here. So im still looking for blackberries.

[TNHunter]

@FruitfulHarvest …

I have grown Illini hardy since 2002. Started with 7 crowns and still have 6 of those.

It is a tough one and will far outlast some of the newer varieties. Illini do have very good wild blackberry flavor… but they are sweeter and usually about 2x larger than wild.

Doubt you will be able to find a source for them now though. They do not propigate easily.

I planted 7 crowns of Ouachitaw in 2020… and they were all dead in 3 years.

Illini are VERY THORNY… which some see as a negative… but not me. Thornless blackberries here are nothing but deer food… and the birds decimate the berries… ruining most of them.

I had to net ouachitaw to get any fruit myself.

I have never had any problems with deer or birds on illini. Those wicked thorns pay off in natural protection.

When choosing blackberry varieties… do consider your deer and bird pressure.

Also consider your peak period for SWD pest.
Here SWD pest normally show up (peak pressure) when our wild blackberries are ripening… early July to mid August normally.

A blackberry that ripens in june would be ideal. One that ripens mid july - august would be filled with SWD larva.

I tried Obsidian here… and they ripen very early (before SWD)… But the thorns on them were more like raspberry… and although deer did not bother them the birds sure did. Obsidian will turn black … but for best flavor they need to hang until black and somewhat dull. During that hang period birds mutilated most of mine.

They would need bagging or netting to get the most good fruit.

In my new orchard… last spring I planted Kiowa and Caddo and one Columbia giant.

Kiowa with its wicked thorns survived and thrived… should get to try some kiowa berries this spring… they are supposed to ripen in june.

Caddo and Columbia Giant (which are thornless) got eaten by deer. Final lesson for me on thornless varietirles… will not try them out in my orchard again.

I have Loganberry (2 crowns) planted in a bed right next to the house and trellised up against the house… they are thornless and have not been bothered by deer or birds.

They produce gobs of nice big berries and the deer and birds do not bother them. I guess they have some fear of getting that close to the house… and they have probably seen me kill and eat some of their friends

TNHunter

[FruitfulHarvest]

I am currently in the city and growing everything in containers. I know that is not ideal, but if I tip-layer from the old container to the new after 2-3 years it should work.

Personally I do not mind thorns. Thorns are worth the better flavour. Interesting to hear that thorns should deter birds. This makes me prefer thorny varieties! Deer are not a problem in Europe afaik. At least not in my country.

SWD neither, though the risk here is great. It has been spotted and it is spreading. I do not want to stop growing berries in certain months just because SWD could be about. Maybe this is a stupid decision, but my fig trees w. exception of breba’s always ripen when SWD is active. Growing before SWD is thus a plus, but I’m growing fruit that can be infected anyway.

[nil]

Tayberry is a hybrid that has evil thorns. It looks like a large red blackberry, but tastes and smells like raspberry. Great production.
Thornless loganberry is also productive and has that distinctive Pacific Dewberry flavor.

[FruitfulHarvest]

I have a tayberry I bought most of my plants last year (some at the start of spring and some around autumn time) and will get fruit on it next year. Really looking forward to it. I have a lot of raspberries as well including Bristol (black) and autumn passion (purple). I did not mention tayberry because it is – as you said – more of a raspberry flavour.

I’m not sure yet if I have tayberry or tayberry Medana though. I read somewhere that the normal tayberry is tayberry Medana and somewhere else that Medana is a recent improvement.

[lmvian]

@TNHunter

Illini are VERY THORNY

How do you remove dead canes without damaging the living ones? The trouble I have with thorned wild blackberries that that the canes catch on one another when I try to take out the ones that already fruited. The effect is that the thorns on fruited floricanes seem to shred the leaves and scratch the stems of the primocanes.

[SMC_zone6]

Stark Bro’s Black Gem has surprised me as a favorite the past few years. Big berries with flavor that’s a notch above the several University of Arkansas varieties I’ve tried.

[TNHunter]

@lmvian … I just cut them out with my pruners in pieces. Toss the spent canes in my wheelbarrow and take them about 1/4 down the road and dump them in a hollow.

Illini grow tall … I tip at 5 ft… they mostly branch out with fruiting laterals in the top 1/2 of the cane. The bottom half is mostly just a single stout very thorny cane… no problem removing them.

Now those are thorns… birds, squirrels and deer will not mess with them.

This is what illini blackberries look like.

TNHunter

[GrapeNut]

This is Columbia Giant just starting to ripen:

It’s a young plant and had only one cane last year. Still, it fruited off virtually every node on the 8+ feet of cane it grew. So I would call it productive. Flavor is good, not out of this world, but that’s why I grow Marionberries too.

[FruitfulHarvest]

Illini are beautiful! The red thorny stalks remind me of my Himalayan. The berries you have are much bigger, but mine is able to grow in almost pure sand and still deliver lots of fruit. I love it! I think I will try to find the Illini here in Europe!

@GrapeNut It looks very yielding. Thank you for your honest opinion about the flavour as well. Based on people’s opinion on flavour I would try the Kiowa over CG, even though the yield is less.

[Plantmurderer]

Only one ive grown is primeark freedom so cant compare to those but way sweeter and lower acid than anything ive tried from a grocery store

[KPS]

Now that I have Prime-Ark Freedom berries established, I don’t see the point in growing any other variety. I have a couple rows of Chesters, and a few hills of Arapahoe, Navaho, Triple crowns.

The Chesters are productive but are soil fussy.

Concerning the other varieties, I’d rather pick the multitude of feral varieties out in the wilds than fuss with them. I have no use for Triple Crowns, Apache, Arapahoe.