We are approaching 300 DD (50) at my orchard today and it is 80f with a warm rain expected tonight. Around a quarter inch is expected with a low in the upper 50s. I feel like I should get a spray on for curculio but worried the rain will wash it away. Most of my peaches plums and nectarines are about 30% shuck split. I have zeta cypermethrin, carbaryl powder, spinosad, surround, and some old malathion. My last insecticide was a neem oil dormant spray about a month ago. What would you do?
1 Like
I found some unopened bonide fruit tree spray. Mixed at max strength with some vinegar and sprayed at 3pm. Label says do not spray if rain is predicted before the product can dry. Leads me to believe it provides some protection after the rain as long as it can dry. I will update after this weekend.
For most compounds it takes about an inch to significantly wash most products off. A good sticker makes it stay on even better.
I think you did some good.
Here’s a chart which shows the rainfastness of various pesticides:
Bonide Fruit Tree Spray uses Malathion as it’s insecticide component, which has a pretty short half life, and a bit weak on plum curc. The good news is that it looks like Bonide includes a sticker in their formulation.
5 Likes
Thank you for the info Fruit tree spray also has carbaryl which has medium rainfastness so I have some hope. Next time I will go with the sevin liquid concentrate for more effectiveness on curculio.
1 Like
You’re right. I missed that. With two insecticide components, it may well do a good job on curc, as long as spray intervals aren’t pushed too far.
My understanding is that plum curculio are all active on the first warm night and you can nuke the entire population at once. You don’t need a persistent insecticide. At dusk, try an application of:
Pyrethrin or pyrethrum (PyGanic, Pyrenone) is produced in the flowers of Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium and is the forerunner of the synthetic pyrethroid insecticides. It is available as an emulsifiable concentrate, (PyGanic), or synergized by piperonyl butoxide (Pyrenone). Pyrethrin is labeled against a large number of pests. It may be moderately to highly effective against leafhoppers, aphids, pear psylla, apple maggot, codling moth, true bugs, caterpillars, mealybugs, plum curculio, and thrips. It is quickly broken down in the environment and may be used up to and including the day of harvest. Pyrethrin is relatively non-toxic to humans and other mammals, although the dust produces allergy attacks in people who are allergic to ragweed pollen. The acute oral LD50 is 1200 to 1500 mg/kg. It is toxic to fish, and has a low bee-poisoning hazard.
- Cooley, Daniel R., et al., ed. 2015-2016 New England Tree Fruit Management Guide. UMass Extension.
Oh, yes, I think you do. You must be speaking of union PC- the scabs just come to work when they feel like it. At any rate, I don’t think anyone can predict when they might show up with adequate accuracy to consistently get good results with a non-persistent poison. They might be working on some nearby shadblow and move when fruit is too far along or might just come from deeper in the woods where it takes longer to warm up (pure speculation here).
If you have information based on research of specific emergence times(within a day or two) related to temps, I’d be very interested. To me, after years of dealing with PC, I agree that they tend to appear when the weather turns warm, but not necessarily on the first warm night. If they did that I think a short hot spell in late winter might wipe them out.
There is a reason commercial growers around here never used malathion for protection against PC- it just doesn’t have the staying power of Imidan or Guthion although it is safer and maybe just as lethal to them while it is active.
Homeowners probably should run with the new version of Sevin if they aren’t going organic with Surround. It has a fairly persistent pyrethroid and I’ve had good luck with pyrethroids in a rigid 2 spray schedule that is done not with first warm night but when last flowering apples lose their petals. It generally protects early flowering species and varieties even if you wait until then- that tends to be the time emergence becomes likely. It isn’t warm nights so much as when the fruit is the size they want to attack, but that tends to coincide with warm weather.
4 Likes
For my commercial operation, I have to agree with Alan, it does take a persistent insecticide. But my experience is mostly based on heavy pest pressure. I think home growers don’t experience the pest pressure we experience here.
Honestly, with the pest pressure we experience here, it takes a powerful neonic systemic like Actara, or Belay to control PC. But I will note that I’ve noticed lots of home growers on this forum are able to control PC with a lot less powerful compounds, depending on pest pressure.
Commercial pest pressures are generally higher and the standards for fruit for sale are higher than folks growing for themselves. But PC is our biggest insect nemesis. They are a tough beetle and hard to kill for us.
1 Like
Where as I make my living protecting home orchards and oversee at least 100 different ones a year using 4 different spray companies including my own. I am sought out when other methods have failed, but my main experience is limited to a 50 mile radius from my home, which is about that far from Manhattan NY, so even though I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years here I can only speak for my own local conditions.
I have been saying for as long as I’ve had an audience that pest pressure is likely to be less in a relatively small mixed species orchard than in, say, 10 to 100 acres of mono-species commercial fruit production. Also that resistance to any give pesticide is likely to be several times slower to develop.
However, the only way to know how little spraying you can get away with in your own site with what materials is with experience and probably taking some risk. On this forum, the vast majority of us are keepers of small non-commercial orchards. It is those who have been protecting orchards closest to you who may have the most relevant information on best methods of protection- but even nearby sites often have very different pest issues. PC you can pretty much count on, however.
3 Likes
To battle PC, what are the pros and cons of imidan vs assail vs avaunt?
Imidan is very toxic to human beings, is packaged to mix 100 gallons at a time so requires opening up its water soluble packets that contain a dusty powder and isn’t very affective against plant bugs but very much against PC. It is also restricted in my own state of NY and I assume in others as well. Last I checked the label said it is not for residential use, which doesn’t just mean inside but, as I recall, within 100 ft of any human residence. Assail isn’t as affective against PC. Avaunt is restricted to agricultural use, which means intent to grow a product for sale- level of scale seems to be irrelevant, but you might want to check with your state’s DEC. It is also weak on plant bugs.
For my own orchard I mix Assail with Avaunt and get excellent results with two sprays of them per season. I make sure there are no flowering weeds below trees by scalping them with a weedwhacker immediately previous. We don’t tend to get two generations of PC here. Plant bugs may require subsequent sprays for certain varieties and species, however- particularly stink bugs for pears and some apples as well as peaches and nects. Tarnished plant bugs seem to be adequately controlled by spring sprays. Coddling moth and OFM can also be summer pests and Assail controls them well.
2 Likes
Check my rewrite- last sentence.
I’m not challenging that. Obviously it seems to be working for you. But advice to commercial growers is that Avaunt should be used before a neonic is applied. Neonics have antifeedant activity. Since Avaunt needs to be ingested to kill PC, supposedly the neonic can inhibit the insect from feeding on the Avaunt.
Here’s what MSU says:
"There are many insecticides available for control of plum curculio, but their performance characteristics vary greatly compared to our traditional broad-spectrum chemistries. Conventional insecticides, such as organophosphates and pyrethroids, work primarily as lethal contact poisons on plum curculio adults in the tree canopy. Avaunt also works primarily by lethal activity, but ingestion is the important means for delivering the poison. Neonicotinoids are highly lethal to plum curculio via contact for the first several days after application, but as these systemic compounds move into plant tissue, they protect fruit from plum curclio injury via their oviposition (egglaying) deterrence and anti-feedant modes of activity.
The rotation of these two modes of action is critical to successful plum curculio control. Avuant needs to be used prior to any neonicotinoids because Avaunt must be ingested to work effectively, and the neonicotinoids have that anti-feedant characteristic. If needed use Avaunt first followed by neonicotinoid insecticide."
That said, as you know some things work better in the field than expected, and vice versa. But this might be something to think about if you ever want to tweak your program.
2 Likes
Yes, I believe you already informed me of that (that is, as I remember, it was you) and I am confident the caution is based on either logical deduction or conditions different than where I’ve used this combination. I use the Assail to control psyla and plant bugs and for its kickback and the Avaunt for better control of PC- and my extensive anecdotal experience suggests it provides very good overall pest control- and I don’t really care what is killing my PC. I know that the Assail doesn’t do a great job by itself but with the Avaunt it does along with pear psyla and plant bugs.
None of these experts ever guided me to an affective 2-spray program for fungus and insects- I had to figure it out on my own and have used one for the last 25 years, at least.
If I’d received your info before I started doing this I would never have begun. I’m glad that over half a century ago, guidance wasn’t easy to come by and because I often had already succeeded with methods not endorsed by our pedigreed gurus I realized it is best to know their recommendations and reasons and then gently sprinkle with salt.
I’ve searched the Internet in vain for the reference I recalled having suggested my “nuke once” strategy of curculio control, so I guess we can safely categorize it as a “recovered memory.” In the process, I stumbled upon this mention of “Curculio Night:”
They become active just about the time apple trees bloom in spring. The adult beetles then crawl or fly to the trees, snacking on tender new growth and flower petals, until curculio night: the first evening at or above 70° F after fruits have set. Furious mating takes place, and serious egg laying begins shortly thereafter in the tiny fruits.
- Phillips, Michael. “Growing Organic Apples.” n.d. National Gardening Association. 8 Apr. 2022 <https://garden.org/learn/articles/view/686/>.
Admittedly all research-based sources prescribe multiple cover sprays for control of curculio simultaneously with other pests, starting at petal fall. This is due to the aforementioned difficulty of predicting “Curculio Night.” In a cool, wet year, curculio damage goes on and on, which leads one to believe that migration and mating can be long, drawn-out affairs. In many parts of the Midwest curculios have more than one generation, so chemical control must be repeated. Thus, I must bow to the experts here who manage commercial operations. And I can cite a (lamentably now defunct) bulletin of the University of Wisconsin, which used to publish nearly identical recommendations annually for commercial growers:
A report from Sauk County indicates PC activity has increased sharply in the past week and the first feeding and oviposition scars are appearing on apples. Close inspection of fruits for feeding and egg laying injury should be underway in apple orchards beyond petal fall and continue until 308 degree days (base 50°F) accumulate after McIntosh petal fall. Female weevils show a strong preference for early-sizing apples, and fruitlets 10 mm in size will be most attractive. Organic control options include PyGanic (pyrethrin) applied at dusk to the outer rows and Surround WP (kaolin) on interior trees.
- Wisconsin Pest Bulletin 64.6 (6 June 2019). 7 Feb. 2020 <https://datcpservices.wisconsin.gov/pb/pdf/06-06-19.pdf>.
On the other hand, for us backyard apple growers, who are applying multiple cover sprays for codling moth later on anyway, I think an early post-petal-fall dusk application of a non-persistent insecticide such as pyrethrin or malathion on “Curculio Night” would be paying enough attention to the pest.
1 Like
For the home owner I have had the most success using Eight which has a long lasting synthetic pyrethrum. I also have to worry about Brown rot and use Bonide’s Fruit Tree and Plant Guard which has the pyrethroid lambda-cyhalothrin. I alternate between these products. It is not as long acting as I would like with a half life of 7 days. The product in 8 works for 4 weeks. What I do like about both is they kill well, and Plant Guard even repels insects, they stay away. but you need good timing. I mostly use this product for brown rot protection. There are many modes of action and I forget what mode it uses? But I do know it is the only product with this mode of action against brown rot in the home market. Alternating with infuse attacks brown rot from two different modes of action. they work differently, and is the best defense for home use against brown rot. Make sure to use acidic water with these products to extend half life of product.
I also agree with Alan and Mark that a long lasting product is needed against PC. They still may infect some fruit using these products. This is a very difficult pest.
If you have this pest, you will soon know why we say this. Yes it is hard predicting when they hit, and also hard to predict when they hit a 2nd or 3rd time.
Check fruit for the unique crescent bite mark.
Drew,
Again, I’m not challenging your pest control program, as it’s working for you, but I’d be a bit surprised if Eight (or 8?) would last for 4 weeks.
If you are using the Bonide Eight, that is a pyrethrum, which has a relatively short half life. If you use the Cyper 8, that’s cypermethrin, which probably offers 1 to 2 weeks protection on trees, depending on weather.
I’ve good luck with lambda-cyhalthrin. The commercial equivalent is Warrior I and Warrior II. Warrior II has micro-encapsulation of the insecticide which has inhibits UV degradation.
1 Like
They state that right on the label. I was just repeating it. Since labels are so under tight regulation, I would think it’s true. I never wait that long 2 weeks is all I give it. With peaches you are allowed 8 applications a season. Plant guard is 5 applications.
From Bonide’s site
- LONG LASTING DEFENSE - Eight Insect Control is quick acting and long lasting. One application keeps working for up to 4 weeks for prolonged protection.
Label says it is effective against PC. I used it for 2 years now. Last year I didn’t have one PC hit. I had my best year ever last year. I think this is the best insecticide I ever used. You can use it on just about any fruit or veggie.
Also on the label is says buyer limited to label claims. It also states it repels insects besides killing them. Maybe why they make that claim?
I will consider cypermethrin in the future, right now it’s not broke. But thanks, other options are always good. If I do have problem with PC or other pests and Eight drops the ball I will try it. I marked a product on Amazon (save for later). I see the product is good for at least 3 years, cool.
Keep in mind that Phillips had no direct experience protecting apples from PC and is likely echoing what he’s read in guidelines for commercial fruit production. His orchard was in too low a zone for the pest, which he mentions in his book.
In my region PC damage never goes on so long that apples cannot be protected with 2 insecticide sprays. I have never seen a single PC in flowering trees and only when there is tiny fruit. I have also had customers contact me for spray almost 2 weeks after petal fall and lucked out in getting full protection with a single spray. I’ve long felt that pressure around here doesn’t last very long in small orchards, but it is difficult to time. Perhaps if I waited for your first very warm night I would find a level of success with a single spray.
Last year I harvested apricots with no damage and without a single insecticide spray- I’m beginning to think that the fruit is too far developed for PC by the time they emerge here- but it was only a single season.
1 Like