Electric Farm Equipment

Has anyone purchased electric tractors, excavators, mini trucks, skid steers, dump trucks?

Bobcat claims the first electric skid steers

Elektrek has many articles on Chinese electric equipment

Specifically Construction equipment in this page

Electric mini excavators, Electric wheel loaders, an Electric mini pickup truck, options available with a dump bed

There is even an electric concrete mixer somewhere in there. For reference, it seems like the base price for cheap Chinese Briggs and Stratton gasoline excavators is aroun $3,000 plus shipping. The electric variant appears to be a base price of around $7,500.

That said, a battery powered version would be really appealing to someone like myself or others with or considering solar power @clarkinks @Steve333 or off grid especially like @Olpea . I am going to look into using this equipment as energy storage in lieu of a stationary battery for energy storage to complete other tasks ā€˜around the farm’ such as running smaller electric power equipment (pumps etc) or as a portable hydraulic power source. Options appear to include rock breakers and earth augers, which I find especially appealing to save my back planting trees. It would probably reduce planting time significantly, too. I’m not leaving a solar panel roof retrofit off the table either.

I have seen the occasional ad for small electric tractors, but have not heard how they compare to conventional ones. I would expect power should be OK but time you can use it between charges would be the limiting factor (as it currently is with EVs), as well as possibly cold temps.

As for using one of these instead of a battery on your inverter, it’s probably doable with a bunch of maybes. First one is if you have access to the equipment battery to be able to draw power from it (or are you willing to modify it in this way). Second is whether the equipment battery is of the right voltage (and perhaps chemistry type) to be used with your inverter. And the last one is somewhat the same issue as with doing this with your EV’s battery, do you want to drain this battery when the power is off, or will you need power in your vehicle/tractor. Perhaps a bit better than with an EV which may be your main means of transport, but will you want to use the tractor or whatever while the power is off.

Just some things to think about. Not sure that I would buy an electric tractor or the like specifically to use it as storage for my PV system, but it may make sense in the right circumstances.

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I have heard the same thing about electric excavators and skid steers as the comparisons to gasoline cars; They are nice, instant power and torque.

My intention would be to work directly with the factory and have as many of these modifications as possible come from the factory. It appears from the forums/groups I’ve recently found on Facebook that factory modifications are fairly common and relatively affordable. My thought is that if I’m doing it, it would benefit the manufacturer to have those modifications listed as options for others to improve their options.

That is a very important point. I believe the excavator is 72 volt lithium ion, which I imagine could work.

Also important; I’m hoping having no diesel/gasoline would simplify my maintenance as well as reduce fuel costs in the long run. The primary responsibility of the PV system would be equipment fuel and possibly greenhouse temperature management. I have no intention to build a home there.

Most of the larger inverters these days are 48VDC for the battery. There are a few which run at higher voltages (like 130v and up) but those tend to be proprietary systems. You might be able to step 72v up to what you need, but you’d need a 2-way converter since the inverter/charger would want to charge the battery as well. Not impossible, as many of the high voltage inverter batteries are actually lower voltage inside with just such a converter, but not sure how available on the open market these are.

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I reached out to the manufacturer (Cartiwell is the brand) that apparently has good rapport with the Facebook group I joined to see what kind of information is available.

Something like this is what I THINK I’m interested in. 2000kg Hydraulic Mini Excavator Mini Digger Loader Bagger Electric Pumping Machine Engineering Construction Machinery Optional - Buy Crawler Excavator,Cheap Mini Excavator,Mini Excavator Product on Alibaba.com

I’m not sure what weight of machine I’ll want, but bigger is probably better assuming it has more power (battery storage and actual horsepower). Cost is my current main consideration, but I don’t want to get something that is not going to be worth it in a year or two. I shouldn’t need it to fit in small spots. I know I can haul 13 tons with my DOT medical certificate, so any machine under 5 tons works for that limit for what I have going on.

A mini excavator for under $7,000 brand new is still cheaper than the smallest Bobcat I’ve found in decent shape used…

Bottom line is that energy density is still 3x worse than fossil fuels, minimum. That’s why we don’t have electric airplanes. But for certain use cases, and orchards might be one, it can make sense.

I’m in the process of buying a bobcat miniex for long days of use in remote locations, wish electric was viable for that!

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We actually do have electric airplanes now…

And Bobcat DOES have electric excavators. You would just have to charge them overnight somehow. I imagine a generator could do the trick. Also portable solar/battery generators are becoming more common. If someone is going to need to bring fuel for equipment, the other stuff isn’t much more inconvenient. I imagine a system will be developed for off-road equipment to be able to swap batteries with fresh ones but I’m not sure. My plan is to have off grid solar on site.

Miners have used electric mining trucks underground for a long time.
They now have electric loaders

Case has a new electric tractor (75 hp) that can be used as a portable generator. I think they are taking orders now.

I couldn’t find a price on them, but I’m sure they will be more expensive than a new diesel powered tractor of the same size and comparable quality, since that’s the way it works with cars.

The new autonomous Monarch tractors are $90K for a 70 hp tractor, but I’m sure the autonomous package adds some to the cost.

I occasionally stop and look at tractors at the Massey dealership (in the evening when no one is there). A nice 75hp, 4x4, cab, diesel Massey sells for a little north of $50K.

I don’t have that kind of money to spend on another tractor, so I won’t be buying one soon.

Ryan, if it were me I’d be very careful buying an expensive piece of equipment like an electric excavator from a somewhat no-name Chinese company. I know it’s a fraction of the price vs. something here in the U.S. but I’d be worried about the quality and parts availability. It might work, but I think of it as sort of an experiment with you being the guinea pig.

I remember when Mahindra started selling cheap tractors here in the U.S. made in India. Those seemed to work OK for most folks who weren’t using them for intense farming, but they had a national chain of dealerships which supported the tractors.

Compare that to Belarus tractors. They also sold at a fraction of the price. Those didn’t work out too well for most folks. The rubber seals didn’t last very long, and you can’t get parts for them.

The Cartiwell Facebook group may be satisfied so far, but a piece of machinery should last decades and I doubt they have been available that long in the U.S. If you just plan to use the piece of equipment seldomly, and store it inside, then reliability and parts availability probably aren’t as much of a concern vs. a piece of equipment you plan to rack up lots of hours on.

For most people in the excavation business, Bobcat is considered a pretty cheap piece of equipment even though a lot of people still use them. The Japanese made Takeuchi is considered tops for ruggedness and reliability, surpassing CAT in compact construction equip. Of course Takeuchi is also the most expensive.

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Thank you very much for your thoughts. Using the machine as a portable generator is kind of the main reason I’m considering this path. I am waiting to hear back on battery capacity etc but they said a 1 ton mini excavator is $3,000 as a diesel, or $4,800 as all electric. If battery capacity is at or better than a power wall from Tesla, it’s a great deal just for a battery without the machine attached.

A 2 ton diesel would be $8,500 whereas an electric would be $12,500. All those prices don’t include shipping/tax/port fees etc.

The alternative is just buying a stationary battery, but I figured it’s worth considering investing in an excavator, mini trucks, or dump machine for the less than the price of a Tesla powerwall ($9,200 without install, ~$11,500 with).

So almost for the price of a battery a 2 ton excavator could be purchased.

You are absolutely correct, they are not mass marketing or mass producing these yet. I kind of took a similar risk buying our Bolt during the fire scare times and it paid off. I’d definitely see if LiFePO4 batteries are available over other options.

I’m expecting this would be a long term investment for me. There’s a local hydraulic shop near my new property, and I am friends with a mechanic/farmer who happens to be good at welding too, so I have folks who can help me make it go. It just so happens the hydraulic shop owner also runs on off grid solar + lead acid battery backup. I’ve had long discussions with him about how he doesn’t want the government to know what he has. Definitely an eclectic mix of libertarianism and fierce independence out that way, I think I’ll fit right in. Those guys can probably fabricate just about anything or know someone who can.

The really nice thing about Bobcat is the availability of service and parts in our area. It seems like a lot of stuff for them comes from Mexico, actually. We break a lot of stuff doing work, so the parts guy knows me as ā€˜the pawpaw guy’ :sweat_smile:

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My brother and i talked about the new Case I-H electric tractor when it was announced last summer. The high points: on a complete charge, about a 4 hour run time. Will charge 80% in one hour, so the sales pitch will tell you that you’ll get a day’s work if you charge over lunch. Now i need to find me the farmers that work 7 hours a day…and takes lunch.

Exmark has an electric zero turn out now. They claim it has an approximate 8 hour run time on a full charge. Full charge takes 12 hours, you need a 220 volt plug. If a motorized version is about 30k brand new, the electric comes in at a cool 47k. Due to manufacturer’s promotional programs, the actual price paid may vary.

I have learned one thing: never underestimate the power of cheap. What I will say: if you use equipment, it will break. But only if you use it. Of course, if it sits, things can go wrong as well. Where are you going to get parts and service? If there’s one thing i have learned about cheap equipment: no one actually wants cheap equipment. You may want a cheaper price, but no one actually wants cheap equipment.

A lot of this stuff is going to change over the next few years. I put a lot of this under the first model year rule. If you unsure of what I mean, have a chat with your mechanic. Sure, it’s been tested, whatever. Can you tell me a single time where real world use confirmed the estimates put out by any electric vehicle manufacturer? Are you willing to be a guinea pig for this? Are you willing to be a guinea pig on a piece of equipment where support is basically going to be non existent?

Based on what you have had to say, you are going to do this. The decision has been made, if not carried out. Time will tell if you are as happy in future years as when it just lands. My advice: rather than look at this only from a vantage where you desire it, look at it from a point of view of why you shouldn’t. you’ve done the thought exercise where you want it. now do it the other way. what are the things that can go wrong? if you get to the end of that thought exercise and you still think the pros outweigh the cons, well and good.

The landscape of vehicles and equipment are full of examples of brands who existed in the US for a time, sometimes to great acclaim, for a range of reasons. Any one remember Yugo? What could possibly go wrong?

As I said, you seem to have sold yourself on the idea. For my money, for the same amount of what you’d be spending for this import (you’ll be close to 20k by the time you get it), I’d look at the used market for equipment around you. I’m willing to bet you can find more capacity, better value, and a unit that comes with support for the same money. It might not be electric, but I’m going to keep beating this drum…what do you do when you need it fixed?

At the end of the day, the primary issue is performance. Every machine handles differently, and changing the power source on existing categories of equipment is going to involve relearning how to get the most out of it. I recently had to buy a new pickup, and I chose to avoid an electric, because I drive a lot of hills, pull heavy equipment, and weather can be unpredictable. If I’m driving 5 hours to pick up something, and I get to drive home in high winds towing something…there’s a safety net in what exists.

Be realistic about your use expectations. Not about how often you may use it. about how you are going to use it when you do use it. If it’s not going to do the job you ask it to under the conditions you ask it to, the cheap price doesn’t really matter.

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Sure, but does it really count if it takes 16 days to fly down the eastern seaboard? :wink:
Still an energy density issue.

The bobcat E19e is definitely interesting. But for what I do (trailbuiilding), to recharge off grid in the mountains, you’d need a mobile backup battery with a solar array large enough to charge it in one day so you could charge the machine during the night, and would have to stay within a short distance from the excavator. Ballpark 300 lbs of extra batteries for 17.5 KWh, plus an array of 12 full size solar panels to move and setup everyday. And you’re still limited to ~4 hours of runtime everyday. Not remotely viable. But for intermittent work in an orchard? Might be perfect.

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Hmmm. Might be a good fit for you , I can’t really say. But if what you mostly need is a big battery and would only use an excavator rarely, I suspect you’d be better off getting a high quality stationary battery for your PV system (assuming that’s what you want it for), and rent an excavator the times that you need it.

If you are set on getting an excavator and using the batt for your home power system, then I would be very careful about the details on the battery. What chemistry, who makes the cells, what grade are they, what if any BMS are they using, max charge/discharge rates, etc. All of these things can make quite a difference on how ā€œgoodā€ the batteries are, and how usable they will be for your other purposes. And as said before, you can be using the excavator if you need it tied to your inverter for barn power (or whatever).

Battery prices (in AE at least) are falling. I’d be surprised if you can ā€œget an excavator with batteriesā€ for the same price as just a good set of inverter batteries of the same capacity. Good luck with it, but do check it out very carefully.

This is a strong truth. I can change a skid steer or mini excavator track in about 30 minutes now. It took just a few times to get a good method down :wink:

Parts and service; it seems like a lot of stuff might be available interchangeably from other comparable items online. I’d definitely need a parts booklet with specs for things so I could figure that kind of stuff out. Like I said about, I’m friendly with the local hydraulic shop and they machine things themselves when needed for cylinders etc. Also good friends with a local mechanic who got his start repairing a family farm tractor transmission at the ripe old age of 12.

I just saw this website on a Facebook ā€˜support group’ for Chinese excavators. There are people figuring out the parts availability!

Along with equipment hauler, logistics coordinator, and equipment operator, I also play equipment mechanic except for major engine or transmission types of work. My undergraduate college education as an Environmental Geoscience major prepared me well for these tasks… :roll_eyes:

My Chevy Bolt gets pretty close to expected range; some other EVs get better than tested range. It depends on many factors, but I understand and appreciate the sentiment. I was a Guinea pig for the Bolt after fire scares and payed a much lower price, it’s worked out so far.

This is exactly why I made my original post; I already see the benefits of low fuel cost, zero emissions, energy independence through off grid solar, possible portable power generator/hydraulic drive for other implements and equipment. I want the bad and the ugly in case there’s something I’m missing.

I think range for EV trucks is the major Achilles heel; Performance wise they will absolutely blow diesel or anything else out of the water with available torque and performance. The 3500 chevy dually I drive for work is nice enough but I am confident an electric version would be amazing, other than currently available range. I think this would be less important for the electric powered farm equipment for my intended uses.

This is a very good point. I would primarily be planting trees and lugging compost/ woodchips around (I think) so for those activities a smaller machine with the proper attachments should be very helpful. My primary objective is saving my back, it’s already not in great shape for various reasons but I can still handle a couple hundred pounds if needed. I’ll just feel it more the next day.

I believe the current intended use is ultra wealthy people getting places faster, and puddle jumper flights between relatively close cities.

A good old diesel or gas generator would fit the bill too, based on my understanding. Sure it’s not the best option but I agree that for days on end in the woods electric is not currently there. We have been using 2200 watt gas generators to charge Milwaukee batteries to power our sds-max drill for planting thousands of live stakes. It’s not a perfect solution but cycling between 9 batteries and two chargers we are making it work. It’s better than tripping up on the extension cord for the Bosch corded sds-max…

If I go this route I intend to install a respectable solar array. It makes much more sense for a stationary job site rather than moving around. Maybe equipment manufacturers will build swappable battery systems or something. If car companies could do it in the late 1800s/early 1900s, I think we could manage as a society now with the proper interest.

Details are still something I am waiting for from the manufacturer. We’ll see if they deliver on information.

I cannot build a home here, so storage in a barn/storage container etc would be the option. LiPO4 is what I’m hoping for based on currently mass produced options.

All of this discussion could be for naught if Biden/Congress decides to ban Chinese imports like they are currently discussing for Chinese EVs… :grimacing::pensive:

Sure it would protect the domestic market, they cost 3-4x as much, if not more… That’s why I’m considering the gamble.

I will be looking hard at details for the batteries and electrical system in gen, that’s the most important part here in my opinion. Hydraulics I am a pro at repairs, we call hydraulic fluid the smell of sadness at work.

Well you should be much better off with no house on the property and just the barn, but there still may be the occasional conflict between who gets the power…

Key thing for using any battery setup for ā€œotherā€ purposes, like with your inverter/PVs, is the details of that battery compared to what the other device (inverter/charger) wants. Lots of folks use fork lift L-A batts on their inverters, but those are fairly standard 48v batts, of a known type and generally good quality. It is a bit of a crap shoot with Chinese batteries, even ones sold for inverter use. If you take a look at some of the PV forums, you will find a few stories of chinese batteries using lower quality cells, fewer cells than standard, defective BMSs, etc. Not all are bad or sub-standard, far from it; but enough are that you need to be careful.

I’d say the same holds for the mechanical side of things. The Chinese do make some very good mechanical stuff, and some junk. For a while they were know to have a hard time making bearings that last. Would be good if you could wait until some reviews come in on that side of things too.

And as you say, may be a moot point if we ban or tariff Chinese stuff…

I was talking only about what it would take for me to use an electric excavator building trails deep in the mountains. Diesel generator is also impractical to carry around everyday and leave running unsupervised overnight. But if you’re using the machine 3 hours or less a day and not far from the barn, sounds ideal as long as it’s reliable.

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IF I go this route, I fully intend to have this as the first of multiple purchases.

Electric truck/loader/excavator, who knows what else? The idea being if I have enough capacity, I’m only one person and there should always be something available as a battery bank for ā€˜stuff’ in a building. There’s always the option for one small battery kept for backup purposes down the road too.

I’ve heard stories of state of the art steel facilities rivaling anything in the US and right next door there’s a guy without shoes on throwing scrap in a can over a fire… Definitely a crapshoot in an almost literal sense! I’m relying on the collective wisdom and advice of the internet to steer me in the best direction. This forum has certainly helped me on the plant side of things as much as I hope the equipment folks can help with the excavator side of things…

Understood! Yes there are certain use cases that would be impractical for sure.

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An AWD mower that does great on hills and also can serve as emergency AC power bank would be great. They could put the batteries low to improve the center of gravity for hill stability.

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