Im in the piedmont here and we supposedly get ~45” annually, but just west of me in the Green Mts. the average is more like 65”. Seeing how storms track here (evidently following topography in some mysterious though observable way) I can surmise that there are some substantial differences by site. We happen to avoid many of the worst thunderstorms right in this spot, while towns in the valleys just north and south by 5 miles get hammered. I often watch the storms skirt past from here up on the hill.
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My wife and I were at the orchard tour and really liked the flavor of the fruit on the tree marked as shown in this picture. I sent the photo to Cliff to try to order a scion from that tree. Hoping he can track it down.
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Welcome to the forum! I’m really interested in knowing more about that tree and flavor / size of the fruit. @KYnuttrees has a great selection of rare fruit trees! Im really glad they did those tours because so much good information like you just shared came from them! This was a pretty good video about Cliff’s varities
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I think Cliff has a number of Prok x Hakkaido crosses. After reviewing his tree list, I think he labels some as Prok X HKD and some as Prok x Hakkaido. One of the crosses I tasted that day was not very good. The one I suspect @DaveNKY (we must be located very close based on your name) referenced was good. It wasn’t a complex flavor of different tastes like some persimmons (no hint of caramel, rum, brown sugar, etc.). It was a simple, clean orangey (to me) flavor. I’m not sure if others would classify it as that but that was my take on it.
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Are there any DV varieties (good ones at least) that don’t develop this flavor at some point? It seems like most all of them go through this flavor at some stage (either on a tree or on a counter). I’m no flavor expert and have a hard time describing flavors, so it’s just a simple observation for what it’s worth. I don’t see “caramel” as necessarily a distinguishing characteristic, but perhaps more an indicator of a particular stage of ripening.
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Does the “UKR 15-9 Derevyanko hybrid persimmon” have a name yet?
wondering if its one of the newer named ones like Sophie’s Gift?
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AFIK 15-9 hasn’t been given a name. It’s got some obvious visible characters which differentiate it from Sophie. Sophie is a relatively smooth (glabrous) tree all around.
Derevyanko himself is still MIA, his whereabouts is still unknown.
Flavor is one of those things that’s hard to pin down, genetically. You can have a large, prolific tree, yet the fruit itself could be insipid or awful.
15-9 is one of those chance seedlings with great flavor quality. The fruit is medium-sized, the skin thicker, but it’s just got the nicest jelly in the middle that’s very very good.
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Sad, I assume that is because of the Ukraine war ?
Is he and his trial garden(s) in Crimea or one of the other occupied regions?
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Seems not to be a issue for the plants. hard to say with people and relatives etc.
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Kherson, I believe. In the south, its presently occupied.
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Yeah Kherson straddles the Dnipro. It’s just north of Crimea. The section on the northern side of the Dnipro was retaken by Ukraine in late 2022. The larger section on the southern side, extending south to the Black Sea northwest of Crimea and Sea of Azov northeast, is occupied.
The Ukrainians have a beachhead on the souther bank of the Dnipro and routinely bomb Russian bases in Crimea. Both Crimea and southern Kherson seem destined for future conflict.
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I wonder if thats the same as Brambleberry Farm’s “Prok x Hokkaido Male”:
I already have a large order with Cliff and got it instead from Brambleberry a few days ago.
There is still some scionwood of that one left if you think its the same.
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I would say it likely is the same. I think Brambleberry grew out scions obtained from Cliff.
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Just hope its the good one @DaveNKY mentioned vs the other ‘Prok X HKD’ + ‘Prok x Hakkaido’ crosses. Might be better to just get from Cliff if Cliff can track down the exact tree by the look of lichens on the bark.
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We found this tree yesterday
I have it works out at your Location
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I think some came from Compton, Lehman, and Claypool, among others. Cliff England is doing some good persimmon breeding work.
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@snowflake … on the hint of caramel flavor.
My experience so far is only with wild southern americans here… and a couple of srore bought jiro/fuyu fruit bought this fall.
There was nothing like caramel flavor in the store bought jiro/fuyu… but they did heve nice flavor and sweetness.
I harvest wild persimmons from several trees… including my sisters rich tooie… 3 wild trees here on my place… and 3 roadside trees in various locations.
Of all those i have only experienced that extra rich caramel flavor in rich tooie… and that happened in year 2021, and was even more noticable in year 2022… but to my suprise was missing in 2023.
They still tasted great… but the rich caramel after taste was missing.
The fruit was a bit larger this year than in the previous 2 years… perhaps more rain this year produced larger fruit but also caused the rich after taste to be decreased ?
IDk ?
But one of my other wild trees also had significant change in flavor this year… compared to the previous 2 years… my walmart roadside tree… it has been a very good fruit the previous 2 years… but this year tasted much better with a distinct taste if vanilla. It was my favorite fruit this year.
I am not sure exactly what causes a persimmon to have a little different flavor from year to year.
In the case of these two… it was not ripeness… i ate lots of them for over a month… and the flavor (this year) remained the same.
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I thought it was a factor of ripening, and maybe that particular ripening can be influenced by the particular weather in a given year. Idk. I didn’t take very good notes last year, but perhaps H118 had more of a caramel flavor off the tree. Most all of the varieties got it at some point. Of course, some were getting that flavor just before they went dehydrated on the counter. I wasn’t a huge fan of the caramel flavor, so maybe that makes me a honeycrisp apple eater. 
My wife prefers that flavor though.
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Wow I think I am in love with how beautiful Kasandra is. I am glad it’s getting good rating on taste. The fruit size is perfect for decoration in the fall. It’s calling out for me. I just emailed Cliff and he is out. Hope he will have some this fall 2024.
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