What are the main deficiencies? Standard red apple problems?
That has some dark character. Will your camera let you get a good picture of the knick you put in it? I tried Stevens method but it wasn’t well done and simply healed over with no growth at the target bud.
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You sure have an interesting seedling there. But, taking a bud and trying to graft if might be your quicker option to another tree like that one.
I do see some of your other seedlings have expressed red genes too, just not nearly so much as that one though.
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If you are nicking the stem above the bud, try nicking below the bud instead. Photosynthate moves down from the top of the plant. A disruption of the cambium layer triggers nearby buds to break.
Odysso apple eaten Tuesday tasted pretty fair. Better than the first apple from the tree tasted in 2021 picked in late September. So, perhaps there’s hope for this cultivar.
Not sweet, but also not sour and not bitter. Over 50% red coloring throughout. Seeds dark brown with a mahogany tint.
Bigger than a golf ball, but certainly smaller than a tennis ball. Slight oval shape.
Size of a large chicken egg approximately.
No bug or disease damage to fruit or tree.
(Niedzwetzkyana and Redfield obliterated by PC.)
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Awesome I got an experimental redflesh variety ultimately from Cornell and it’s pretty dark but not like that! Glowing heart is also pretty dark and red
If anyone is in central NY state I can tell you where to get cuttings, King Ferry, NY.
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Anyone have a ripe Odysso yet in AR, MO, KY, TN, NC or VA?
A week ago one tasted ok, and seeds looked ripe. Trying to decide if I should pick the last one (before some varmint does).
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Such a shame as niedzwetzkyana is such a vigorous and healthy graft on my 8 year old Jonathan. I’d estimate 4 feet with pruning and fully branched. Lots of blooms but still no fruit. Redfield on the other hand grows in inches rather than feet.
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Sometimes our multi-grafted trees don’t do much because of ‘apical dominance’…side limbs often just aren’t vigorous. But if you remove the top of the tree and graft there, most anything can become vigorous.
I put Green Pippin in top of one such tree…and it has grown in 3 years about 15 feet on M111 rootstock…making the tree between 20 and 25 feet…the graft being at about 8 feet. (Still no fruit, but the parent tree finally had 6 Fuji this year…I picked one unripe one today). The tree about 8 years old. Has half dozen varieties now, but just being patient and hope for more fruit eventually.
I put Odysso on this tree this year…it has about 30 inches growth.
Redfield may be slightly less vigorous than Niedzwetzkyana, but it’s main problem is it never grows limbs straight…always unruly.
I cut the top out of my Redfield…it had gotten damaged…and I have about 7 shoots that are 2 to 4 feet long going in all directions! These shoots came out at 3 to 4 feet off ground,
as I had topped the tree at about 5 feet. It seems averse to having a ‘central leader’. Should be interesting.
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[quote=“JustPeachy, post:1348, topic:2252”]
Skillcut and others are doing this in a very controlled manner, but I have to think that mother nature has done it too on a much bigger scale for much longer, the problem is a logistical one - we need to find the dang things in the wild.
I’m sure there are some good red fleshed apples in the wild, but I’m less sure that we’ll find the excellent red fleshed dessert apples that most of us really want. Much of the red fleshed stuff is on the primitive or crabby side. My experience so far, confirms the value of selecting parents, especially both parents. With focused efforts, I think we can build out the quality of red fleshed apples very quickly. With unfocused efforts or chance, it is going to take a lot longer. My guess is that very little of what is discovered randomly in hedgerows and forsets will compete with the next generation of intentionally bred apples, but will be more along the lines of cooking and cider apples and breeding stock. When I look at the difference between old heirlooms that were almost all the result of chance or open pollination, compared to modern apples, huge strides have been made. They are maybe not always in all the best directions, but the areas that they excell in shows the potential of intentional breeding. When I started my breeding project, there were very few red fleshed apples even known. Now there are many and more showing up all the time. People write me about apples they have found in the wild or on an old homestead etc. Thats my take anyway. I hope I’m wrong. I do like the idea of working any decent red fleshed into the breeding genepool for diversity’s sake, or for any special traits they have.
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Steven,
How often or how much do you use Rubaiyat as one of the parents in your breeding program?
I am impressed with how red the flesh is. It is sufficiently juicy. After eating it for the last 4 years in a row, I’ve noticed the size and the eating quality has steadily improved. It would make a good parent, IMHO.
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those guys are right. I’ve never seen red wood in an etter red flesh or their offspring. That doesn’t mean the flesh cannot be pretty dark and solid red/pink though. Perhapse not as deep red as some of the red wood types, but those tend to be much more crabby and primitive as far as I can gather. You will note though that the bark of black strawberry is quite dark red. The blossoms of that group of RF tend to be more pink than regular apples too. The leaf color is never red in the growing season, but can tend to show more red pigment than average apples in the spring and fall.
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So great to see you using Sugarwood. I think it has high potential in breeding cider apples. it has the sugar levels, and it is very productive. Also, great texture for pressing. The red flesh trait is definitely lurking in there. It does express a little, but not very much. You’ll see though that the stem is quite red.
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Originally I started with Grenadine, but I was conflicted. It’s overall desert quality and texture are much lower than Rubaiyat, but the flavor is clearly more complex and strong. Starting over, I would lean on Rubaiyat more and 1/3 or less grenadine. The Rubaiyat offspring are turning out to be much higher quality, less tannic, better texture, and just overall better dessert quality. I don’t think I can think of a better RF parent right now, except for one of my King David x Rubaiyat offspring. I’m sure there are some other excellent parents in the modern pool of new RF apples from breeding programs, but I haven’t had any of them yet. Rubaiyat was the closest step Etter made toward that great RF desert apple we all want so bad. By crossing it and its offspring with high quality apples, I’m sure we can make progress very quickly. I knew and said in the beginning that Grenadine was a risk and that it might take generations to tease out the negative traits. Turns out I was right. There seems to be a clear difference in the quality. Whether the Rubaiyat seedlings will ever have quite the flavor of Grenadine and some of its offspring like Appleoosa and Black Strawberry, we shall have to wait and see.
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Great to hear.
Wish you a lot of success. Look forward to hearing about your new red flesh crosses.
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I’ve notice the same steady improvement with Rubaiyat here.
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I would not be surprised if Rubaiyat does better in other places than here. Our heat here is very challenging for apples. I find that usually when rub is at its ripest and best flavor wise, it starts to go downhill in the texture department.
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I am in New England. We don’t have strong sun like those in the midwest do. My Rubaiyat was grafted on the top of Honey Crisp. It has grown vigorously. Being on the top, Rubaiyat has gotten more sun than other varieties 8-9 hours a day, not fullsun but the best my apple trees could get.
I stored my apples in closed plastic bags in a fridge. Rubaiyat lasted for 2-3 month without losing its crisp texture.
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Yes, it’s significantly cooler down here - especially this season! I haven’t observed the texture issues that you’ve described in my climate. Can’t comment on Grenadine yet, as my example of it hasn’t begun to bear. Next year, probably.
