You’re correct to a fault. Younger wood/trees are as hardy as older ones. Of course a thick coating of bark helps with extreme cold temperatures but in the long run, those trees die, too, the larger.
A seedling that may pop and grow 6" only is just as hardy as a 6’ seedling tree.
The roots being established is the “power”. Roots provide power for grafting too. A large tree can be grafted with “slipping bark” and the power from the roots is the single “again” reason the tree has the ability to provide better/more success/takes… but again, both wood types have their own deal as to how cold-hardy.
I gotta say this and nobody seems to care but a few people that I converse with messaging. If you want to have near 100% success grafting, plant your rootstock and don’t graft it until it’s 6-8’ tall. Then bark graft it and you will begin have enormous success.
Of course 4’ is bark grafting territory, even 3’ but the idea is to get the rootstock above deer height and have more rootstock to use should the scion you grafted get eaten by critters.
Plant your rootstocks and be patient and learn to bark graft and to flap/banana graft all your stuff. Wood less than 3/8ths is pretty well junk. The guys that graft as orchardists or as propagators are using 3/8ths upwards. You watch videos about flap grafting on youtube and you’ll see guys/gals grafting 1" scions for flaps/flap grafts. But, if you want to graft a 2" caliper stick, you still use the flap graft. You just make more cuts to the scion and in return you have more flaps peeled down on your rootstock. Instead of a typical 3 or 4 “flap” hanging from the rootstock you may have 6 or 8 flaps continuing the larger caliper the scion being inserted.
There are two really successful and strong ways to graft and they are bark grafting and flap grafting.
People should try to be patient. Plant the rootstock and cage/tube protection and graft later on.
I’ve said it so many times on the group to wait but no-one can do it, lol. And I understand of course. But the long run picture is much more to your advantage to learn: bark grafting & flap/banana grafting.
Both these techniques are unquestionably less dangerous, too. And they almost always work! All you gotta find is slipping bark on the rootstock that isn’t bleeding (sap) and you’re goot to go. That’s assuming you have a well caliper-sized place to do your work.
The least hardy part of a tree (not counting the roots of course) is the trunk and the first 6 inches or so of a branch coming out of the trunk. By top working out 6 or 8 inches from the main trunk on a branch, you bypass this more tender area and the scions are more likely to survive severe winter cold. So it is possible to grow and fruit what in my zone is a very tender variety, McIntosh for example, by top working onto a hardy stem builder such as Norland or Parkland apple. However McIntosh would die on its own trunk. Its true there is no “antifreeze” effect, but top working does help tender varieties survive and fruit in my zone.
Some trees, for example the Russian bred pears I am testing, are more tender when young. The trees gain significant hardiness when they fruit and have attained “adult wood”. So the recommendations in growing them are to mound them with snow when they are young to protect them from extreme cold.
Sure enough, Bernie. They say 10" actually but I’m not one to argue.
The other thing is this…
You start grafting 5 ft. or 6 ft. up and you’re caging a trunk so deer don’t eat your cultivar. I believe and (it’s opinion, I"ll admit) that once deer get a taste of a cultivar they like, they keep coming back. Therefore you graft high and not allow that. If they get a taste for your rootstock, that’s bad news…
I think it’s a good idea to try to avoid the cultivar anywhere below a browsing height. And again, the percentages are boosted when grafting high up and the techniques: bark graft, flap/banana/mega chip/texas bark graft they call it. Or simply putting a chip up high on a much less diameter branch off the main trunk and pulling it backwards (that branch) to create the new tree…
And you gotta have a stake guys. I’ll beat it into the ground until I die. You gotta tie the growth to the stake weekly. Every other week if not. And keep the rootstock-tree free of all growth forming, weekly.
Nothing beats grafting wild callery. Graft them waste high when I can to discourage the tallest rabbits. They don’t like the flavor or consequences in pokes from thorns from chewing on my rootstocks. Once the rabbits and deer are sufficiently frustrated then I graft a rootstock over.
You got an awesome cultural-growing point about those thorns that I forget and that is not to mention the hardiness these wild callery give to all soils & climates. I’ve been thinking about some of your posts today on other threads, and, you are spot on I believe. I’m wondering if zone 3 will be cold hardy… I don’t know because I didn’t look up how cold hardy these are. I think it is zone 3. And it could’ve be they’re possibly hardy to 2b.
Callery are cold hardy to zone 5 only so far. If a person wanted to they could change that. If zone 5 callery pears seeds were collected in the thousands a person could litter the ground in one spot with very rich soil. In doing this out of 100, 000 + seeds a few would have the cold hardy genes. Keep in mind what I’m saying would not make you popular because if it escaped and it would somehow they would adapt quickly and our problems would be their problems with invasive callery. @Bernie imported many Russian pears seeking cold hardy pears for their climate many years ago. Callery however is a rock best left unturned. It has potential and it will find it’s way there soon enough on its own.
i need to try those here. if they are truly z3 they should survive just fine. no deer here so its not really needed just would like to use them for their hardiness. just grafted 2 shipova scions on 2 lower branches of my ivans beauty hybrid aronia/ mtn. ash. bent them down with twine and a stake. hopefully they take.
The first callery that escaped would quickly hybridized with the Harbin pear picking up the needed genetics and breed a super cold hardy callery rootstock. See the article below trust me they will adapt just give them time but don’t give them any help.
Heck it was right on this thread. And you believe or think if tons of Callery seed are disseminated that cold-hardy ones will ‘present theirselves’? The OP was talking -37 C which is -34 F.
Yes exactly they would be invasive pears like they have not seen there. They have lived -20F here at my property and I’m not trying. I know of an older Tree that survived colder than that so I believe -30F is not a stretch Kansas Office of the State Climatologist · Kansas Extremes .I believe it survived -25F or -26F with no die back. It’s a very old tree. When a bird heads home with a belly full of Kansas callery pears Canada will have survivors in zone 4. Then zone 4 callery will adapt to zone 3.
Clark, my neighbors grafted Callery’s didn’t shake a thought off their mind at -33 here a few years ago with the polar vortex. He bought grafted pears but they turned out to be callery rootstocks. No pears ever formed. Heck they’re every bit of 15’ tall I would suppose.
Have you done research about provenaces where these grow? The highest altitude sources for example?
One of my favorite conifers are true Cedars. Cedrus libani var. stenocoma vs. Cedrus libani is a huge world of difference.
var. stenocoma can be found at extreme elevations and conditions and is zone 5a hardy whereas Cedrus libani at lower altitudes/elevations is not zone 5 at all. It’s a 6b regardless of what the internet says.
It’s all about provenance in this case, again (seeds).
Well I’m trying again with Canadian OHxF87 rootstock from Whiffletree in Ontario. A few years back as I mentioned they almost all died due to the fact the roots were harshly fumigated to get to the Canadian wholesaler who passed them on to the nurseries. I got others from another Canadian nursery and they all died, at least 80% of them. However, I got 10 in yesterday, and they look GOOD! Just maybe they use a different chemical for fumigation now, or possibly there is a Canadian breeder of these rootstocks currently? I put 5 in pots in my hobby greenhouse and 5 dug into a row in the garden. The soil has just thawed in the last day or two to allow this (late and cold spring here so far). I’ll report back as to how they do.
The new OHxF87 I got from Whiffletree are good and leafing out normally. Chip buds are taking on the ones I budded. So I’d say they now have taken care of the fumigation problem they had a few years back. Nice to know Canada can now get good pear rootstock that is in good shape!
Yes ohxf87 is a must have rootstock glad you were able to get them. We have the same problems in the USA. It takes forever to get things like the collection of Prarie cherries, but eventually we get them. Eventually the USA and Canada will hopefully make that process easier. If a nursery on either side with a certificate sells plants eg. ohxf333 or ohxf87 or ohxf97 it should be OK to ship to both the USA and Canada.
