Experiments on grafts with grape

vite innestata

Good evening I’d like to show you this, and ask the experts if it is a frequent phenomenon … I did some “training” in January to practice grafting (rooted vines) and I thought about using a scion from one of my spontaneous grapes (whose fruit I still don’t know because it still didn’t bear fruit). The goal was only to reach the budding and above all the welding of the bionts (not necessarily finalize with a transplant). I proceeded like this: I took the scions and rootstocks (which are of the “known” so4 variety) I made the split grafts tightening with insulating tape and closing with soy wax which melts at 50 °. Then I put the scions in a plastic bag with damp paper and I placed the bag in a drawer next to the radiator readjusted in order to maintain a temperature between 28 and 30 °. (Practically a forcing box). After 16/17 days I observed: all the grafting points seemed enlarged and on the basal cuts of the rootstock there were 3 mm white calluses. I planted the rootstock in pots and watered them, pots have been placed on a shelf above the radiator in front of the window. After a month one of these 4 grafted cuttings sprouted; the thing that seems strange to me is that both the ready gem and the latent gem have been activated (second one from my understanding should be activated only if - due to frost or mistreatment - the bud of the ready one is lost), according to you this is linked to the variety of the scion (from unknown phenology since it is a spontaneous vine) or did something in my procedure activate both buds? What do you think?


Hello Luca. Some terms your using i don’t understand. i can gues, but to be sure what do the following words mean?
ready gem?
latent gem?

I also grafted and than rooted some grapes last year. I unfortunatly don’t have any offical rootstock. So used spare wood of isabella for the rootstock. And grafted bought scions ontop. I bought the scions, and they only had 2 buds. So i cut 1 bud off, grafted it as backup for if the scion would not root. In the end the rooted scions where quite weak and i think 1 even died. The grafted ones took off though.

I used whipe and tongue graft. And then put them in a box with slightly damp cocopeat at 18-19 celcius (room temp)

I also had a rooted cutting, make so much callus. It actually split the scion like a banana.


Great job… I’m an absolute beginner in grafting… bionts on my book was the name of the two parts to merge… ready gem should be the gem ready to sprout, and the latent gem should be the second gem near the ready one which sprout if you loose the bud of the ready gem… probably I translate some words literally from italian while they have other nouns in english… sorry! What variety are scions on top? Congratulations they’re beautiful!

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Here nurserymen before rooting the cutting put the graft in box with no light at about 28-30 ° C for two weeks (it’s called “forzatura”) to help merging scions on cuttings. That’s what I’ve tried to do… If you know some vineyard owner in netherlad, with specifica rootstock good for you climate and ground, you can ask him some of the shoots that roots go on sprouting (even if the plant in grafted). Otherwise I have Kober 5 BB and S04 rootstocks…

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It’s the same of your “room temp” but with higher temperatures…

fortunatly for us, we have verry little phyloxa. I expect that to change though!.

However this leads our sellers to ususualy sell cuttings. And the places that sell grafted plants, cut of all buds of the rootstock to avoid it suckering. And they usualy don’t want to sell just the rootstock.
So unfortunatly/fortunatly in the few vineyards there are in the netherlands, they don’t have any rootstocks suckers. Also almost everyone just uses So4. Not because they teste it to be best. But because vineyards in the netherlands are verry new/few and they all just copy each other. No-one actualy trieled them here.

I am looking for
3309 C
101-14 Mgt
So4 / Binova
Paulsen 1103
If you know any earopean places that sell those id be verry happy. I plan to email some french and german nursery’s soon. But i try to keep my hopes down.

(binova is suspected to be hermafrodite somatic mutation/hybrid of So4 (witch has male flowers. More lime tolerance and more vigor, similar to so4 for the rest)

I am mainly looking for rootstocks that make the grape ripen a few days earlier. Since i have a relativly short season for grapes, if they ripen 7 days earlier, they ripen with way more sun (intensity). And are a lot better. They also avoid rain, and damp cold wet weather that makes them rot.

And i have the paulson in there for it’s strong root system and tolerance of different soils. It will probably delay ripening due to its higher vigor.

So bionts, is the graft? (the spot where you fuse together the rootstock and scion (scion is the part with the fruiting variety)

I stil don’t know what you mean by gem? could you describe the part of the plant that is “gem” Is it the bud?(spot that grows into a shoot) Is it a scion? (the twig of the fruiting variety) The rootstock? (part that roots)

Hi oscar, this is the same in Italy, but, after a few years (4/5) latent buds (buds=gems in italian - sorry for my english), latent buds from the rootstock start sprouting again. I don’t know many of the rootstocks you write about but if you are looking for something special you can ask Rauscedo nursery in Italy, they work on big numbers, but maybe they can sale what you are looking for… I know that Kober 5bb earlies maturation (but is too vigourous in silt soils). Did you consider the possibility of cultivating early varieties like Priè Blanc or Solaris that would mature soon regardless of rootstock? Biont is any living organism (in graft bionts are the two part to merge: rootstock + scions). Which variety are the scions you bought for those draft? Have you got a list of cultivating plants?

Ah that makes sense. Gem is bud.

They actualy don’t just cut off the bud. but also around it. They cut off the bud, the latent buds and the spot where latent buds form. If seen 13+ year old plants off wich none ever trew out a single sucker. Although they where planted close and got heavely pruned.

5BB is average on maturation. I think roughly a week before Paulson 1103. And roughly a week after 3309C. (according to some french and german sources, this might be different for you in itlaly. or for me)

I think i have solaris. Or i a friend has a few (i think 7-8 at ~4/5 years old i think).

My grafts on the photo where off (i would have to dubble check)
Muscat Blue Seedless (did not know there was a seedles sport of this. i have my doubts)

i also have
muskat moravsky
muscat blue
white muscat
and some others. Most are just going in the 2e leaf this year. rooted end of spring last year.

Back to your origional post.

“3 buds”
I remember reading somewhere that some of the different species of grapes, had different buds and latend buds.
I remember them talking about it in america. That in some grapes if the primary bud freezes, an almost invisible latent bud started growing. And that shoot from that latent bud would not produce fruits (since the flower buds are already contained in the primary bud in the winter. But the latent bud has now flower bud starts in it.)

However they where talking about some species having sort of 3 buds. The primary “large” bud. And then a secondary smaller bud (thats normaly latent) that also has flower buds in the bud. And then even a posibility for those almost invisble latent buds.

So it might be that the variety you grafted has those " large" and “smaller, but not truely latent secondary bud” It would be really intresting to see if both thoose shoots produce flowers. Or if only 1 shoot produces flowers. Or both don’t at all.

“Multiple non dormant buds. Or cytokine overdose waking up dormant bud”
Another explanation could be how you treated them.
I know the profesional company’s usualy plant out there grafts a few weeks before winter, so they have a few buds of growth and than go into winter dormancy. That way the 0 to 1 year old grafts they sell, have multiple growth points and instead of slowly growing 1 long shoot, they grow a few medium long shhoots.

“Part about cytokines / auxines”
From what i understand about plant grow hormones (witch im certainly not an expert on, and i am oversimplifying here)
The thing that triggers a bud to grow is mostly Cytokines (and ofc temp). Those mainly get produced in activly growing tips of the roots. And transport only up (against gravity). They save up in the top of the plant. And a high concentration of Cytokines initiates shoot growth from buds. However that growing shoot also produces auxines. Those auxines inhibit shoot development in buds, and travel down to the roots where they promote root growth.

So in the end. If budds wake up and start forming a shoot, depends on the cytokine concentration. But also the proportion between cytokines and auxines near that bud.

So early spring. almost no auxine near top bud. So a little cytokine is needed to wake it up (together with temperature ofc). However a little later in the spring now the shoot is growing, the shoot produces enough auxine to inhibit the formation of side shoots.

This also “explains” why if you take off the growth tip. You get many usualy smaller side shoots. The cytokines saved up near those buds was counteracted by the auxine. High cytokines + high auxine = no shoots. But after you remove the tip, the auxins lower but the saved up high concentration of cytokines remains. High cytokine low auxine = many shoots. The cytokine then gets spread over those multiple growth points and so does the plant resourches. Hence the many but smaller side growths.
“End cytokine/auxines”

You might have had the temp and envoriment so ideal for rapid rooth growth, that so much cytokine was produced that it could wake up both the normal and dormant bud. (usualy the latent/smaller buds need more cytokines to wake up/grow.)

“damaged primary bud. 2 latent buds”
It could also be, that you damaged the large bud. And now you have 2 latent buds that sprout at the same time.

We could probably more accuratly gues, by finding out the bud growth habits of the wild species the species/hybrid is off. And the fact if 1 or both or neither produce flowers. (no flowers i gues, damage bud + 2 latent buds) (1 flower 1 no flower, i gues cytokine overdose) (both flowers i would gues the larger + smaller but no latent bud)


Great explanations… so if I understod well… if the plant goes on sprouting from two buds it maybe for a caractheristic of the buds of this variety, while if this doesn’t happen anymore I have to suppose that plant (for the cutting of draft) or external conditions pull up chitokines levels, is this right?

It is all pure speculation on my part. I have only been growing grapes for 5 years. (1 year more seriously now)

I think there are 3 plausible explinations.
1: that it is a species with the larger secondary bud.
2: That a secondary bud/ latent bud got woken up. by a large concentration of cytokines due to “extreme” root growth.
3: that damage to the primary bud delayed the primary bud. or forced 2 latent buds.

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Yes perfect that’s all… I would say that if buds will repeat the same behavior, it wouldn’t be a good invention of the plant for it lives where the spring sometimes comes for two weeks and goes away before returning: if ice will destroy even the sprout of the “latent” bud, plant is to be considered without a 2nd chance…

Very new plants sometimes act a little differently than the mature plant will. Sprouting on the bud - coming out of dormancy could change,once the plant is established in the ground and not being fooled by the hormones and warm temperatures all around. But since this is an unknown vine, you don’t really know.
I don’t know grafting of grapes, so I can’t tell you much otherwise. I am opting to buy most of those and grow own-root types.
For reference since I seem to be looking at lots of Italian videos - as you said gems=buds, I think bionts=cambium. You would have to search a bit to see if we are understanding the terms.

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Confusion on terms comes from the fact that sometimes in english you say bud to say “shoot” and sometimes you say bud to say “shoot-button”, we say gems to say “shoot-button” and “germoglio” to say shoot… I’ll try to say bud for gems… nice observation that about the difference between the young and the aged plant…


I forgot about that one- I have definitely heard ‘germoglio’ for ‘shoot’. I just have run with context for the videos - I just need to understand what is going on. It unfortunately isn’t language class, I’d get further in grafting and genealogy.

well… I found some drawings and tried to add words (where they weren’t present). There should be all italian/english words…Maybe this may help…!

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foto vite alberello

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