By any chance did all of your Triple Crown come from the same vendor?
I had something similar happen here in WV. I had to pull TC that i had bought from one vendor as they all likely came in with some kind of disease. Same thing with Von. Took about 2 years to show good sign of root disease.
I bought TC from another vendor and they grow like Frankensteins monster here.
Just going out on a limb here to not fully write off TC if any of the above is a possibility.
I had issue with cane borers a couple of years ago… it takes a diligent effort with secateurs to get them in check…
I lived in KY for about 12 years… and visit a couple of times a year… lovely state and wonderful people. We are much less populated here in WV and we have alot more hills and hollars… which to me is Almost Heaven.
I’m have a few Rosborough blackberries that I understand are similar to Brazos. I should get a decent crop this year from them. A friend of mine’s dad used to grow blackberries when we were kids. I remember them being big, plentiful, and delicious. I found out recently that those plants were Brazos. The old man didn’t share my memories and said they weren’t that sweet?
Experiences in West Central Georgia.
Apache- avoid- suffers from terrible “white drupe.” see Blackberries with white druplets. Good flavor, easy to manage canes, good sized berry. White drupe problem got worse every year until I yanked them.
Kiowa: Thorns are no joke, vigorous (and likely to spread several feet underground) canes that will need a lot of management, huge berries, very productive, great taste for some berries. Have to hang on the plant until dead ripe or they will be sour. They are dead ripe only when they lose some of their glossiness and are very easily picked. Got a lot of red necked cane borers and some sort of crown borers and root gall. Some white drupelets, but not nearly as bad as Apache. Eventually yanked them. Still have volunteers popping up years later from leftover roots.
Navaho: small berries, often berries that are only partially filled out, not productive at all, not great cane renewal, best tasting, to me and the birds.
Ouachita: fairly productive, fairly vigorous canes, decent sized berry, mediocre taste. I still have a few around but I wouldn’t get them again.
My taste preferences are a strong blackberry flavor with some sweetness and some tartness. None of these match the flavor of good wild blackberries, Navaho is close. All of them taste better than the average wild blackberry. My flavor preferences were Navaho, then Apache, then Kiowa (but has some great tasting berries among the average), then Oauchita. All of these berries have somewhat large seeds which bothers some people but was never an issue for me.
I’ve had Kiowa growing here for more than 15 yrs. Huge berries- I can pick a gallon pail full in less than 10 minutes. Heavy production over a long period. Good flavor. But as others have indicated, best if left til they lose glossiness. Thorny? You bet! But worth the ‘danger’.
I put in Ponca last year, probably gonna plant some Caddo & Ouachita this year, and maybe some new Kiowa plants.
Could be a number of things… Anthracnose, Cane Gall, Crown Gall, Hairy Root, Root Knot, or any Viral Disease… The reason why most people buy plugs is that they are usually pretty virus free… i hate plugs so i try to buy 2yr old bare roots… then u never know what you are going to get as far as viruses…just hope for the best.
If there is a chance that you got the plants from the same vendor…you may have just gotten diseased plants from the get go…
Maybe try another source and trial it again. Try Chester as well if you havent yet.
As for cane borers…yes as soon as you see the rings start chopping.
When i get new plants in, i quarantine them… rinse the roots about 10 times and Immunox them… ive wasted years on bad plants so i try not to repeat it.
@steveb4 … I would be happy to do that Steve… but my Illini have never produced root shoots… they send up primocanes very close to the crown… never a root shoot… and they are very erect too … never tip rooted either.
I may be able to force one to tip root next year… bend one over and into a pot.
Warning… my Illini do have some double blossom (rosette ???)… so you may not want them. Our wild berries carry that and can give it to your tame canes. Mine have had double blossom for 5 or 6 years now… it does affect the fruiting some… big sections of blossoms will turn reddish then brown… and no fruit. I do still get lots of good berries from them despite it. I prune out the bad spots… but I have read that it is impossible to get rid of.
Floricanes pass it to primocanes each year… so it will always be there.
it been awhile i have to recall my memory but it was the size and the overall complex flavor. probably more sweeter. ill have a better comparison hopefully this summer.
Who else gets chiggers picking wild blackberries? I figure if I mulch my entire berry garden that might cut down on chiggers in the blackberries. Hoping others have found that works.
If you want a plant to send up suckers take a shovel and go about a foot or so from the crown and bury the shovel to sever the root… it will send up a new cane… (is your mulch really really thick)? if its over a foot deep it will sometimes suppress suckers.
Another method if you want is to go out and prospect about a foot or so from the crown. Dig down thru your mulch by hand until you find a pencil sized root and cut it about 6-8 inches long. You can pot this or put a bunch in a tray and cover them with potting soil or mulch and they will send up new plants. On an adult plant you can dig up the whole plant and probably get 50-100 plants on root cuttings. Maybe more.
As far as wanting Illini Hardy- there are better options if you want to deal with thorns.
Prime Ark 45 gives you primocane fruiting…but its late. So if you are in a very cold climate it may not be worth growing. Cold hardiness is mostly unproven. Z5 likely.
Darrow has secondary fruiting laterals… so it will give you berries for a longer time. Also very cold hardy down to -20s.
Kiowa has large berries but moderate yield…however on a long 6 week period.
I like Darrow. Its Hardy, Good Berries, Good Production…generally a good overall plant that just wants to work. I used to grow it… i will again.
As for thornless- Chester and Loch Ness are probably the most hardy. I dont grow Loch Ness but i may next year. Chester is a plant that you can pass down to your grandkids… its just tough and keeps going. Middle of the road berry, not the best not the worst. Its good for storage. Berries stay firm for a good long while. So great for farmers markets and u-pick etc. Loch Ness seems to be an improved Chester… it looks really good on paper.
I found a patch of odd blackberries last year that had me puzzled. A mostly thornless behemoth of a patch that i think was a seedling of a bird that ate someones thornless berry and it hybridized itself.
In about 2 hours i got over 50 ticks and unknown amounts of chiggers. What a PITA. I found ticks on me for several days after…they were in my clothes, my vehicle… nightmare.
The native americans used alligator grease to keep them off…
Since i dont have alligator grease… DEET was developed by the military… for good reason.
I have switched to IR3535 which seems to work just as good. Coleman SkinSmart… has done what ive asked of it.
How to control chiggers? Control their hydration. They thrive in long grasses and long green plants (blackberries). So mowing is just about the only thing that pushes them.
The only honest option is natural predators. Spiders, lizards etc.
However chiggars are good for the Earth. Chiggars are baby mites that feed on vertebrates that grow up to be mites that go into the soil and feed on invertebrates.
When i was growing up my mom always kept skin so soft around… i once got chiggars on my male parts…so i have an intimate hatred towards the things. I think the skin so soft myth is pretty busted…which is likely why i always had ticks or chiggars… but maybe it just wore off too fast.
Mom also put nail polish on every one of my chigger bites… which i think has also been busted.
So to answer your question- the blackberry plant alone is enough to keep the mites going… all they need is hydration until something with a spine and blood comes by. Its their cycle of life…
So chiggers can find and colonize blackberry bushes even when they’re 100% mulched. Interesting. Does that mean they probably arrive on the plant from the nursery?
im no expert…but if i was a chigger i would want to set up shop where things like birds and mice would want to show up… which is their preferred food source.
@krismoriah … thanks for the tips on propagating illini… perhaps if I collect some roots and let those develop shoots… they would be rosette (doubleblossom) free ?
Not sure…but that seems like it might work.
@hambone… ginseng hunter here… and long time blackberry collector too… the two main concerns when collecting either in TN… is chiggar but also ticks (seed ticks).
I first dress appropriately… and then spray appropriately … to stay chiggar and seed tick free.
Starting at the feet… long pair of tube socks… on and pulled up high… then your pants on… fold the loose pant leg ends around to wrap them tight against your legs… then 2nd pair of tube socks on… pull up high covering your folded around pants legs.
This creates a barrier that keeps seed ticks from easily getting access to your leggs… where they can easily crawl up and get into all kinds of areas… believe me… you dont want them…
Then wear tall rubber boots… that come up just below the knee.
Wear a tshirt…and tuck that into your pants… again… so they cant just crawl in and easily get to skin… but they will instead usually continue to crawl up on the exterior of your clothes…
Your clothes… pre treated with permanon… kills seed ticks dead. Use something like Repel product 40% deet to spray well the area… tops of your boots… pant legs… around your waistline… perhaps lightly on the upper body areas.
I have been on all day ginseng hunts several times… covering 15 miles or more of thick TN woodland areas… and dress and spray like that… and come out tick and chiggar free.
Our local Walmart normally has both of those sprays…
Repel… permethrin – for per treating clothing and gear.
Repel MAX 40% deet.
That combo will do the trick. When on very long hunts… I keep a small pump spray bottle in my fanny pack… to refresh the deet occasionally. The permethrin is supposed to last and be effective on pretreated clothing for days.