thats crazy! my dewberry puts out that much primocane but isnt nearly as productive. no fruit from them this year or the chesters as they chewed off all last years growth to about 24in from the plant. ive officially declared war on the voles! time to go nuclear!
I have tried overwintering quite a few Western trailing varieties in Northern Kentucky and there was not really a good option for me that would provide a regular harvest. Those varieties included: thorny and thornless boysenberry, thornless loganberry, marionberry, newberry, kotata, silvan, wild treasure, olallieberry, Obsidian, Columbia Star, Nightfall, Siskiyou and Black Diamond. Once the temperature gets below 15F, the plants start dying back. The semi-trailing Eastern varieties like Triple Crown and primocane-fruiting varieties are usually good to about 0F if there is not a substantial will chill.
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@jtburton … i got my hardy illini from starks… around 2002.
They dont sell them anymore but if you goog search the name details from starks is available.
They say they are good to -23 F.
My logans, PAF and Ouachitaw did not like our low of 3F this winter… dead canes.
Illini… no problem.
Obsidian … surprise… also no problem.
Anyone seen any data on how cold hardy they are supposed to be ?
Most of the trailing blackberries on the list were developed in Western Oregon either by, or in partnership with, the USDA. There are several standard testing locations in the PNW, where the coldest average temperatures are around 20F. There is usually an abstract of the testing like this one for Black Diamond available.
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@jtburton … i found a horttube write up on Obsidian… but in the years that they tested and recorded cold hardyness details… they tested them in two locations but the winters were mild… -13 C… around 8.8 F was the low during the test years.
Marion showed minor but noticable winter damage… obsidian no damage.
One Green World says -10F… but not sure i would trust their comments.
Oregon berry report on Obsidian says high yielding, hardy, thorny… but no temp details.
I have tested them to 3F and there was no damage at all.
There are a number of factors that potentially impact the cold hardiness of blackberries. Absolute temperature is only one of those factors. Wind, humidity, orientation to the sun, time exposed to the temperature, and when in the dormancy cycle the plants are exposed are all important factors.
Marion is one of the most difficult to consistently over winter, so if you are overwintering it in Tennessee, then you are doing better than most!
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@jtburton … i dont have marion… but do have obsidian.
Marion would most likely ripen in my SWD peak…
Obsidian is supposed to be quite early… should ripen and finish before SWD… that is the main reason i am trying it vs other west coast blackberries.
Obsidian suffered no damage at 3F out in the open, unprotected… so far so good.
thats funny. i just overwintered Colombian giant, Chester and triple crown here in z4 under the snow. not even any tip dieback and last years leaves are green and still attached. and yet you are in z6 and they die for you. have you tried leaving the primocanes on the ground and cover with leaves then a tarp in late fall? that would trap the ground heat and keep out the cold wind out. i got a bunch of old heavy fleece blankets i put on mine then the 4-5ft. of snow does the rest.
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Just because someone on here or FB etc says you cant grow something doesnt mean its an absolute rule. The same also goes for folks saying they dont like the taste of a certain berry. (did the canes get too much water, or did they not taste them in their peak, or do they have poor soil or under or over fertilized)
There are reports here of folks saying you cant grow this or that because its too hot, or too cold… when in fact folks in the hottest and coldest parts of the country find a way to grow them.
If you read Drews reports of Columbia Star from years ago he thought it was his favorite berry… its basically a thornless Marion. Which fans of Marion will say cant be grown outside of the PNW. He grew them in MI.
Any good review of Olallie says that it can only be grown in California… which isnt true.
Folks in hot climates say that they cant grow this or that… when plenty of folks in southern FL grow Apache and Sweetie Pie.
Lots of folks in Alaska growing trailing varieties with the same technique as you steve.
The lady that i got my Hardy Illini from grows hers where the temp recently was -28F…
Boysenberry in its prime was said to only grow in CA and the PNW… so a couple of guys bought some and planted them in Arkansas and called them Lavacaberries. No sense arguing.
Loganberry born and bred in southern California… is a favorite in the United Kingdom. (also Tennessee it seems).
Im following The Permaculture Orchard’s motto: ‘try it… then maybe try it again. If it grows like a weed keep it… If it fails then move on.’
With that saying you can eliminate the ‘rules’.
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The thornless cultivar is said to be less vigorous (in our climate)
Royal Horticultural Society Garden UK Blackberry and Hybrid Berry Trial report 2000.
Blackberry and Hybrid Berry 2013-2015.pdf (3.9 MB)
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@sub … may be location specific.
It grows like crazy here in z7a TN… in a morning sun only location.
I wish it was more cold hardy… all my pcanes that grew last year died with our 3F low this winter. They survived 8F, 12F ranges in previous years with no problems.
This is my first year to have any winter damage… but 3F killed them dead in two locations.
The crown survived and is pushing a bunch of big pcanes now.
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i wish i had learned about that trick years ago. took me about 4 yrs. to discover it myself from over wintering figs here.
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I’ll take them when you dig them up! 
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you talking about the nelsons? if you want them you can have them all. berries are great tasting and productive but are only about 3/4in. they did survive -40 so extremely hardy.
My experience with the trailing varieties was a lot of fun but also challenging. There is something satisfying about proving someone wrong when they recommend not growing a plant where it might not work that well. I don’t regret any of it… but with that said, it takes a lot of work to make some of the varieties grow and produce fruit reliably in climates where they do not normally grow well. While it is fun for awhile, I finally got tired of spending a lot of time trying to get a handful of berries each year.
I tried burying trailing blackberries under leaves, pine needles, and row covers, but each time the canes still had damage when the temperatures fell below zero. There was also the additional problem of voles chewing up the canes… i guess the covered canes made a nice place for voles to wait out the weather. In my area, snow rarely lasts long enough to insulate the canes for any meaningful period.
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I still have a few trailing varieties in 5 gallon landscaping planters (marion, newberry, thorny boysen, and Columbia Giant) but move them to the garage during the winter. I did add a few Eastern varieties this last year… Ponca and Caddo but both had a lot of dieback from -8F temperatures in December. Twilight blackberry was added this year.
Raspberries: Jewel (black), Brandywine (purple), Anne (yellow), Cascade Delight (red) and Nantahala (red).
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Just on the topic of chill hours, we have so much disproven in the last decade or so. I couldn’t believe @applenut‘s reports when I first read them. I’d think apple is one of the most researched fruit in the world and we now know that many chill hour labels are completely wrong.
When I started a raspberry bed, I looked up reports on varieties and chill hours. Every variety is listed above 1000 hours (except bababerry). We get around 400-600 CH in an average year and close to 1000 in a rare case. After trialing a dozen varieties, I’m yet to find a raspberry/blackberry that doesn’t reliably produce here.
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Probably, Here in Belgium we have aproximaly the same weather as in Uk: late frost possible until mid may, short summer not too hot and a drop of temps in October.
I also had dead primocanes the first year of planting the thornles logan at my sister’s house, year after that it only had two spindly canes of 3 or 4 foot, so I brought the plant home to mutilate it (stem and root cuttings) and now it’s in recovery 
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I thought this was pretty amazing for a small backyard. This guy says he has never mulched. This is 5 plants.
Fall
Spring
Training system
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On the rasp/blackberry group on FB a lady yesterday showed her technique of growing triple crown in Z3 Wyoming. I think she said they survive -40F. She also grows a few other varieties and none of them are rated Z3. She gets crops every year at the cost of a bale of straw per plant.
Where there is a will there is a way.
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