Another person chasing down disappearing cultivars:
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Interesting article but has one major error. The writer incorrectly stated that Jamestown was on the shores of the York River. The James River is correct.
At one time a white mulberry tree near Charlottesville Va was the national champion tree. But in 2020 they found one in Kansas that was bigger.
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If you want to read more on her adventures and others similar to hers going back many years the FB page The Fruit Explorers is worth some reading.
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Iām sure thereās merit to these endeavors. But do you really think that the best tasting fruits ever grown were allowed to fade away into obscurity? No, the best are still with us. Of course there are plenty of other traits that need to be preserved. And itās a fun thing to do if thatās your thing.
Ideas like replacing alfalfa, a legume, with mulberry leaves, a non legume, as a high protein forage would have to be explained to me in more detail. I can think of multiple reasons that isnāt going to happen.
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There is alot of merit to these endeavors i think.
If not for the sleuthing of the Golden Delicious we wouldnt have itā¦it was a chance seedling in a farmers field.
Boysenberry was lost in the weeds if not for sleuthing.
I recently talked about a peach that is growing in Monticello and is just now being re-introduced to the public.
Early Transparent apple is all but lost to the publicā¦ āJune Applesā.
If not for a fellow in ND the Amethyst Purple raspberry would be lost.
If not for fruit sleuthsā¦many pawpaws and persimmons would not existā¦
If not for some crafty exploring there wouldnt be as many figs or mulberries in the US.
The Elderberry cultivars as we know them would not exist if not for folks exploring river banks and desolate placesā¦ all over the US.
The search for a true Morus Rubra is ongoingā¦ and eventually will be found by sleuthing.
Many folks get scions from the USDA that are no longer in the tradeā¦ or can only be found by sleuthing.
Many many heirlooms are out there and are on obscure places like seedsaversā¦and can be found by internet sleuthing.
If not for sleuthing i wouldnt have half of the things that i growā¦ from garlic to tomatoes to fruit trees and canes.
The whole world of nuts is based on sleuthingā¦
If not for the quest and ability to grow obscure thingsā¦this forum and most of the groups would be pretty boring.
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The heirlooms by and large arenāt better fruits. I tried at least 50 heirloom apples and as many or more ārareā figs. The vast majority are rare for a reason, theyāre average or mediocre. Cross the best apples we have and you can soon have 100 or 1,000 new varieties as good or better than the heirlooms.
The best eating new fruits are coming from modern breeders, not fruit sleuths. If you want variety and traits like disease resistance go heirloom. If you want best taste go modern.
Iām primarily thinking about the best fruits Iāve ever eaten, stone fruits. Stone fruits are in a league of their own. And modern breeding as stepped them up another level. Berries are second and third tier fruits. Nice but donāt compare. Maybe heirlooms rule there.
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yeah they arent for everyoneā¦ most folks as a whole just grow what they know like Honeycrisp and Granny Smith apples. Bartlett pears, Stanley Plums and Belle of Georgia Peaches. Beefsteak Tomatoes and Peaches and Cream Corn. If not for folks growing these things Facebook groups would have much to talk about as most of all of those fruit varieties have issues with diseases. Almost all of my FB groups are dedicated to āhelp meā postsā¦
I like this group because folks here grow things different from the normā¦ and it seems as the folks that seem the happiest are growing obscure varieties from the more obscure nurseriesā¦ so in a way i think that the more passionate folks on here grow the things that they sleuthād on google.
Probably the best blueberry talked about on this forum is so obscure that its literally not for sale. I sleuthād it outā¦ and so did a couple of others.
If not for sleuthing Clarkās Crab wouldnt exist i dont think. Nor his Healthberry to anyone but him.
How about Clarksā little yellow pear?
Wanna grow Kotata blackberries? Siskiyou? Silvan? Newberry? Good luck and god bless ya on finding them. Are new releases better? I dont think so. They are gone because the patents are dead and theres no money left in royalties.
This forum is chock full of folks that grow things that are sleuthed. And as far as i can tell are happy that they grow them.
and yesā¦its fun
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Not sure that modern breeding can beat a 1724 plum that the French found while exploring in Iran. The label was lost in shipping and Sir William Gage went ahead and named it after himself.
Grown by George Washington and Thomas Jeffersonā¦they fell out of favor for many many decadesā¦
luckily a sleuth brought them back into our culture and are now considered the āHoly Grail of Stonefruitā
Probably one of the best examples of sleuthing that exists. Some may call it an āHeirloomā.
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I appreciate that people like you are saving varieties like that. Hopefully some nursery will bring them back into circulation. But I think you are proving my point. Those are all from modern breeders, right?
At any rate there is room for both. And I think by and large people have access to more fruit varieties than ever both new and old.
The gage plums are great in some climates. Those like England and WV that are challenged to reach high brix. In my situation, thatās ideal for sweetening up stone fruits, there are many that are better. Better flavor. Maybe not sweeter. Fruit can only get so sweet.
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The person featured in this article is @Elizapples, a member here, though they havenāt been on in a while.
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Noā¦the breeder for a couple of them is dead. One was bred in Australia and the other was bred in 1950.
I sort of tried to bring to light some European varieties of berries but i am alone in that categoryā¦ its a totally different mindset. I have 6 more varieties that i dont even discuss.
I find it odd because of the love of European Pears and European Plumsā¦ Even Asian Pears and Asian Persimmons have their own followings.
With berries its like there is a brainwashing that unless its a recent U of Ark variety its not worth even discussingā¦ i dont think im wrong on that.
With fruit trees its obvious that folks get obsessed with Apples and Pears and even Plumsā¦ and i think the folks on here into them would LOVE to have some obscure French and Euro varieties that they cannot get their hands on. Whereas some only want the ālost cultivarsāā¦ the apple guys all want the hardest ones to find.
Persimmons? The new craze is Ukranian
Cherries? alot are waiting for someone to import the canadians.
Peaches? I remember reading all you guys old posts from decades agoā¦ u were all into the really oddball hard to find ones at the niche nurseriesā¦ you were all testing brix and posting photos on here and houzz. You guys had a really good time with those posts its obvious.
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Hang in there. The berry breeders are hard at work. There will be many new varieties with superior qualities. Blueberries for sure. Iām going to run out of time but others will benefit.
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Through its use in marketing, āheirloomā has become an ill-defined term. Beware though, there is case law defining precisely what it means when used on packages of agricultural seed in the U.S.
Your post uses āsleuthingā for several different purposes. For example, the search for Boysenberry was very different from searching for superior cultivars of wild nuts in a forest.
About ten years ago I went to a local Portland movie theater for the regional premiere of āThe Fruit Huntersā featuring actor Bill Pullman. There was a Q&A with local fruit growers afterwards.
^ various sources for the video
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Interesting conversation. For me my favorite apple is Grimes Golden. That was the apple tree we had when I was growing up so it brings back fond memories when I eat them. My mom made the best applesauce with them. I bet a lot of people seek out varieties that bring back childhood memories.
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/re: yeah i think that is a big aspect in europe, that people like fruits that trigger nostalgia.
Nothing worse than giant sleuths showing up at your orchard, iāve heard they will break off large branches and decimate your harvestsā¦
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Eliza is a friend, and weāve swapped some plant materials over the yearsā¦recently, Iāve sent her an assortment of M.rubra scions and 60-chromosome persimmons (theyāre mapping the persimmon genome at Savanna Institute).
She gave me some āHicks Everbearingā mulberry scionwood several years agoā¦ Fruited for first time this yearā¦ unimpressive compared to any other selection Iāve grown. But, I guess hogs & chickens donāt cull much. Maybe itāll get betterā¦ but Iām not holding my breath. Itās āhistoricalā, but at present I canāt recommend it to anyone whoās growing for their own consumption.
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Brilliant ^ (sleuth sloth post)
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I bought a Nikitaās Gift hybrid persimmon from One Green World. It was slow to get going, staying small for a few years, till I put down a 3" layer of compost around it. It has been admirable since then. Self-fertile, astringent till soft, very tasty. It was bred in Yalta, Ukraine.
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I think itās super cool when people try and track down lost cultivars. I recently had WSU (Washington State University) out to my property to take samples of 100ish year old apple trees and they think one of them might be a lost cultivar. More testing is still needed. I personally think it was one of the random wild apples trees. But hey random trees can end up having really good traits.
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