Full interstem in one year

@clarkinks
okay but I want you to understand that the branch below (any graft) must be kept clean. You rub off “anything” below the scion. it’s those buds and growth that show up “weekly” that if you do not rub them off, you will kill the scion from depraving it of energy.

I see there’s discussion about callusing pipes too. Once a week a person needs to rub off growth on roottstock or in this case, interstems and rootstock. Just as I explained above to Clark.

You want to keep the union (your carpentry) inside the pipe and the scion outside. In the case of an interstem and callusing pipes, that’s up to you how to do it. At all cases… the growth on anything except the scion (should and must) be removed.

I’ll duck out now and let you guys continue on. I didn’t intend to disrupt the flow.

And “whatever works, works”. That’s good & dandy. There are more than one way, always, when grafting.

Thanks,

Dax

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@Barkslip

The concept Dax and I are discussing for those not familiar with the concept is the concept of nurse bud or nurse branch stealing resources from your graft which can cause your graft to fail or keeping the graft alive by feeding it long enough for it to take. Stephen Hayes gives a great visual here and its a good example. In the case of where you have 2 branches I agree with Dax or a nurse branch underneath but something must feed the grafts while healing if there is not adequate energy stored in the root. Dax may be saying there is only enough energy so its got to take or not which i can appreciate that. If buds are left on both the theory is a fast growing interstem leafs out and takes quickly while a slower to take pear like Duchess callouses and takes. Once the top buds swell you’d quickly rub out the growth of the interstem. Dax is correctly saying or it could and will steal energy. In the case of using my small yellow pear as an interstem I would encourage everyone to try it its the ultimate interstem. Harrow delight is similar in its properties as it has some rootstock breeding in its genetics. If a nurse branch is left while a graft takes it should be cut off once it has taken if you want the graft to grow quickly. An old branch will overtake a graft if left to do it resulting in death of the graft in most cases. That’s not to say you can’t have an old branch but it cannot be allowed to dominate the graft.

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@DennisD , is this the temp at the time of the grafting, the sustained temp, or an average? Spring has some wild swings of temps.

See finally, he’s grafting on a large tree. You Clark and I do, too. Everybody here except us (and we gotta remember this and I try to) - everybody else - is grafting to itty bitty branches that need cleaning weekly.

Everybody- you see Stephen hayes has done bark grafting and this is the real deal for speed and bringing about quick prolificness (quick bearing).

So, in a sense, I don’t do what this thread is discussing unless I’m using a branch/rootstock that’s not on a full size tree… and again, that’s not going to apply to most people on this forum who would be cutting away a full size tree down to a couple or one or however many necessary nursing branches to feed the rootstock, the roots, the creation of the new varietal, etc.

The proper way is to keep the scion, branch, interstem, everything “above” the nurse branches on a larger tree like Stephen H. is showing clean still and free of occuring growth and to hold back the scion from growing for as long as possible to get a good, solid, knitting of the union/carpentry.

When you start grafting, you usually begin small (“pencil thick” or less scions people often ask for). Eventually you learn to “wait” until you have a large and established tree to graft onto later down the road. With a large tree, you get easy takes because you’re doing techniques that work best: bark grafting and flap grafting and/or budding techniques…

and the growth that occurs is, tremendous.

It’s all a matter of size of rootstock, scion, do I wanna bud instead on the interstem later vs. grafting with long and sweeping carpentry cuts and do it all at once, … there’s so many choices…

And, eventually, you don’t just walk up to a tree and graft, you spend a lot of time looking at the tree and deciding the best place to do your work; the best technique for (a) particular tree vs. another;

I know but unless you’ve stood in front of 20,000 trees and grafted them like I have, each one presents me with a fresh look at what that one is going to require. I, just couldn’t make enough videos or write enough because each tree is “unique” to its’ grafting choice I’ll make.

You guys probably think I’m overcomplicating, but, I get results. Big-time.

Best of luck & regards,

Dax

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Hi Regina,
You are right the temperatures in springtime do swing a lot, so I try to read the 10 day weather forecast to select a time when temps will remain above freezing and the average stay as near optimum callusing temperatures for the type of fruit as possible. If you click on the icon the curve tells you the temperature where callousing occurs most efficiently, at the peak of the curve. Ideally you want the graft to heal, so nutrient transfer can occur between scion and rootstock, before the buds break open since there is a limit to how much energy is stored in the scion.
Dennis

SkillCult has a video on this.

Thanks @DennisD that’s what I was thinking.

Thanks for the reply, I’ve got enough rootstock for 11 tries at this, so I’ll certainly try a few this way and see how it works.

I had a high take rate with whip and tongue graft last spring, so I’m optimistic I can make what you’ve described work. Glad to know it can be done that way.

Hi Oscar,
I have been researching for information on the influence of fluctuating temperatures on graft union formation. Having read several of your postings I am thinking that there must be some research that I am not finding. This pertains to my pre-preparation of interstems for outdoor top working of my sweet cherries. I am pre-grafting various plum varieties to my Adara and Cherry plum interstems, allowing them to dark callous for several days before either outdoors grafting or storing them in refrigerator until outdoor temperatures are ideal. So I have several questions you may be able to help me with:
As I think thru the steps of graft union formation: 1. lining up of vascular cambium, 2.generation of a wound healing response, 3. callus bridge formation, 4. followed by vascular cambium formation and 5. subsequent formation of the secondary xylem and phloem, here are my questions.

I have read that step number 3, Callous bridge formation can often be completed within 3 days,

  1. So after 3-4 days of dark callousing at room temps, I plan to store them in my refrigerator until my outdoor conditions are favorable. Does placing these interstems back into the refrigerator interrupt the callousing process adversely?
  2. Are you aware of any research on how fluctuating temps affect graft healing?
    Thanks
    Dennis
    Kent, wa

I can’t speak for adara/ your plum. Since im still searching for adara (it’s not as widely available in the EU. (i don’t have experiance with it since i don’t have it :frowning: )

But if had apple scions that i kept for 6+ months in the fridge as a experiment. (back of the fridge set at 2c, so they where between 0 and 2c i guess) (2c = 36f)

All the white stuff is callous. But since both scions are parallel, there is no hormonal gradient (more cytokines on top of the bottom part of graft. and more auxines at the bottom of the top part of the graft) and thus little to no differentiation happend. And the callous stayed callous.

This is what happend.

Kind of amazing how much new callous tissue a scion can make just from stored moisture and resources.

If i where to place an educated guess. I would assume the callousing proces would slow down considerably. But would likely not be damaged. (as long as it does not dry out or got infected by fungus) if you put your freshly calloused grafts in the fridge.

callousing happens way faster at higher temperatures. And enough moisture. But not to much moisture.
My grape rooting method apparently was ideal for callous formation. As evident by the callous formation splitting this grape cutting’s bottom like a banana.

I have not searched for formal research. But if seen anecdotal lists from experienced people on this forum. And those seem trustworthy enough to me.

I personally would either do summer bud grafting on adara shoots. And than treat those shoots as normal scions. (cut when dormant store in fridge, graft when temps outdoor are high enough/ when rootstock starts to wake up)

Or i would do all the grafts on the same day. (graft the bud on adara, then W&T adara on stock.) Or double W&T.

The whole thing with grafting is, your severing the connection between the shoot (scion) and roots. And since the shoot evaporates water, that it normally gets from the roots, it’s vulnerable until a new vascular union has formed, and it has access to water from the roots again.

To help us with this. We ideally want the rootstock “awake” and actively growing and forming the new union with the scion, before the buds on the scion start to leaf out and increase the evaporation.

That’s why we store or scions cool. We want or scions to think winter is “ending” later, than the rootstock. So the rootstock wakes up before the scion. And the rootstock does most of the “heavy lifting”

I’m not sure how your scions are, dormant wise. i suspect 4 days at room temp could be fine. But id definitely adjust if you see the plum buds brake.

Another thing you could try. is locally heating the graft union, but not the bud. I think barkslip has a tutorial about that. Maybe he can give you better advise on how much heat for how long, will not wake up the scion.

For me though. I’d just store your plum and adara in the fridge and do all the grafting on the same day when your rootstocks outside are waking up.

i hope that helps. And was not to confusing.

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@oscar

I’m starting to get the idea we are thinking along the same lines on some things.

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XD

maybe we should do a “fridge grafting” competition. And then use the proper rootstock/scion configuration.

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Thanks Oscar for your insight, since we are having a new cold spell and my cherry trees are not yet breaking bud I will store them back in refrigerator after 4 days of dark callousing. Will let you know later how it works.
Dennis

if you have enough, you could also keep a few outside the fridge longer. Or wrap them in parafilm, and store outside? (if it’s not freezing)

you (and we all) learn most by experimenting :slight_smile:

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Good idea,
Yesterday I decided to test callousing rates for apple whip & tongue left indoors and dark callousing for a week vs a similar apple graft that is callousing outdoors at temps ranging from 31 F up to high 40’s. After a week I will open both and see how they compare. Will post pics of yesterday and in a week for both.
Dennis

im not sure how much callous will be visible after a week outside. Id give it 2-3 weeks minimum. (at low temperatures)

I have it in Germany, if you want some. But it may be too late for this year.
Last year I did a cherry graft with an Adara interstem on a peach branch. I did two simple cleft grafts at the same time and it worked fine. Adara grafts pretty easily.

That would be awesome !, if you can spare a scion id like it.

Maybe we could trade a few scions.
Ill send you a list of scions i have for trade this or tomorrow evening :slight_smile:

your name seems familiar, didn’t we already plan to trade/send some scions or seeds? i know i did with some-one but could not find the post again.

I have also done two grafts at the same time and most of them worked but be aware that most of the ones I did started to grow in order and there can be a delay with the scion emerging. I assume that the first cuts need to start mending before the second one grows.

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