I had trouble finding time to prune my trees this year because we didn’t really have a two to three day window without some sort of rain.
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I ended up only getting one to sprout last year, so I ordered another batch of 10 seeds in the fall that have been cold stratifying in a pot outside over the winter. Hopefully I’ll get a few more this time so that I’ll have a decent chance of at least one male and at least one female. The first-year seedling seems like it’s been happily dormant in its pot outside this winter, despite lots of rain and some cold temperatures (15°F on the lowest night):
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Not a bad amount of growth in one growing season here in our “cool” Seattle summer:
None of the next seeds germinated, so I’ll just grow this one and then try to multi-graft it with the opposite sex once I figure out which one this is. Might require a Texas vacation at some point to collect scionwood, though.
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That doesn’t look like Texas persimmon. The leaves are too big. A young Texana’s leaves look like ilex vomitoria. That:s also too much growth for the first year. I’ve watched a bunch of them grow from seed. D
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This is the second year, not first – the previous post shows the same plant’s size when it was dormant after the first year.
As far as leaf shape & size, that’s a shame! The seller is linked in the first post in this thread, and they have a variety of persimmon species they sell seeds of, so it’s possible they had a labeling mixup. Another possibility I guess would be that it hybridized with one of the other species they are growing for seed, though I don’t know the relative chromosome counts or if that’s even possible.
I just ordered 20 seeds from a different source (an Etsy shop with pretty good reviews), so hopefully I can get some of the right species germinated by spring. I’ll leave this one in the ground because I’m very curious what kind of persimmon it’ll end up being.
Yumm, native Texas Persimmons. I personally don’t like them myself but always a novelty at a local fruit walk park near Houston,TX. Mexican plums the next tree over. Note the black stain of the ripe fruit that would be on your tee shirt if not careful. Red ones are mexican plums. Note for growers you need both male and female trees meaning a long wait until you know what a seedling is. This fruit is tough and all the green ones will turn the devils black shortly. The ever popular Texas black fruits are sold out.
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I may reach out to you next summer!
I must confess that my main motivation at this point is to try to create a hybrid with D. nigra, if I can get that to grow in my greenhouse, which is on my to-do list for next year. They appear to have the same chromosome count, at least, and if texana won’t produce seeds without pollination, then I’d want to only offer it nigra pollen by hand and see what happens. Their natural ranges don’t quite meet, so there may not have been much of an opportunity for chance hybrids to be discovered in the wild even if they can readily hybridize, and I haven’t found any papers discussing anyone attempting to cross them.
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Thank you @anon47724557, the box arrived today! Two of them were soft and black, so I got my first taste of this fruit. I have to say I didn’t detect any licorice/anise flavor at all, but it also was not very flavorful in any way. Mildly sweet, with a texture that strongly reminds me of D. nigra, but without the almost chocolatey flavor profile of that species. I can see how people might compare them, though, and I really hope I can get them to hybridize. Now I just need to find a good source of black sapote for my greenhouse next year!
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Did you try the mexican plums?
At least you will have good seeds for the persimmons!
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One of them, but it tasted very sour and maybe wasn’t quite ripe so I’m leaving the others on the counter a little longer. Do they usually sweeten up ok?
I ate a third one (the only other one that’s soft), and decided to try to cut it carefully to show the fruit profile. Here’s a before and after that attempt:
And here’s a close-up of the flesh around the seeds:
There were a few spots that looked like they had seeds but actually had nicer chunks of flesh, but it did have 5 seeds in this small fruit. Here’s what I didn’t eat (the skin is very tough):
I’m tempted to taste some of the more firm ones since this has not even a hint of astringency. It’s a pleasant, slightly bland but creamy, mildly sweet taste. Very messy, though.
Since I’ve now got an overabundance of fresh seed, I’ll try germinating some immediately, and cold stratify the rest. I had already ordered a seed packet from an Etsy seller in McAllen, TX, and they look like they are in good shape, but dried out.
If my germination rate is anything better than abysmal I’ll probably have some extra seedlings next spring if anyone else wants them.
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I just found this paper titled Germination of Texas Persimmon Seed
In case this is useful, some of the relevant results are:
Germination was >93% at constant temperatures of 20-30” C, but decreased abruptly or ceased outside this range.
The percentage of seeds that germinated in light did not differ from those germinated in darkness.
Seed germination ranged from 93 to 97% at pH values from 4 to 11.
Apparently, germination is dependent on high adequate water availability, indicating that seedling establishment is probably confined to periods of high soil moisture.
Germination after storage for 1,6, 12,15,18,21, and 24 months showed no changes in viability. Germination was >91% throughout the 2-year period. Apparently no dormancy or after-ripening requirements exist for this species.
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Thank you! That’s very helpful, and good to know there’s no benefit in cold stratification, and that they last so long in storage. I’ll set aside a bunch of dried seeds for next year in case the first batch doesn’t do well in the greenhouse this winter.
And welcome to the forum @fmoor!
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I don’t know that the temperature recommendation means to skip the stratification. To me that’s not clear.
They explicitly state in the paper that the seeds were collected fresh (other than the ones collected from coyote scat) and were stored in a dry state at “room conditions” of 20-27° and 50-70% relative humidity. Seed stored under those conditions had a pretty consistent 90+% germination rate at as little as 1 month and as long as 2 years. They also explicitly state this in the paper as one of their conclusions:
Apparently no dormancy or after-ripening requirements exist for this species.
Cold stratification is an “after-ripening requirement” for many species, but apparently not this one.
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That clears things up. Thanks
It’s interesting that they suggested such a high moisture level in the soil. when the wild ones are ripening and dropping fruit the native soil is much drier than that.
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Presumably they sit in the dry soil for months or years until the next big rainfall, and that’s their germination trigger. In terms of the storage humidity, I don’t think they tried different levels and that was just the humidity range in their offices or wherever they stored them. I’m guessing they will store equally well at lower humidity levels, though since they didn’t test that I’m just going to keep them in a drawer in my house, which is usually in that range.