I personally get really good (98%+ success) on apples, with both dormant (bench) grafting whith the W&T and Chip Bud techniques. I usualy use parafilm. And wrap the whole graft and scion in it. If it is especially sunny the weeks after grafting, i paint the wrapped graft/scion with watered down interior white wall paint (latex).
Cherry’s are gonna be tricky. especially bench graft. Since they heal best at higher temperatures. I remember the guy from this youtube channle doing a lot of dormant (winter) cherry grafting.
He mentions that the thicker well matured scions work best. (in another video, check his channle)
I would personaly recomend to bench graft your apple rootstock. You can do a W&T graft, and even place a chip bud graft below it.
That way your already practising chip grafting. And have a backup if the W en T fails.
If you got enough cherry scion wood, i would also have a go at bench grafting it. But also keep some wood in the fridge. So you can chip bud or graft once the temperatures are higher.
I am personaly saving my cherry scions in the fridge to chip bud later in the spring (after the cherry rootstock started leafing out)
I am located in NY and we are already experiencing warmer temps than normal during the day. Is it too late to collect scion wood, or can I collect and store in refrigerator until it’s time to use?
As long as the buds are not too swollen, you should be okay. Just be sure not to put the scions in a refrigerator that has fresh apples or other fruits–as the ethylene gas from those fruits can damage the scions. I usually keep my scions in an ice chest with a cold pack or frozen ice bottle, and then rotate the ice pack or bottle(s) each day to keep the temperature about the same as refrigerator.
Not sure there is a universal answer besides “they should heal”…how quickly and completely they take, root mass, soil, water, sun exposure, vigor can all impact how much growth you should or will see
Hope everybody has had great success so far and their grafts are waking up my apple scions are starting to break dormancy and I couldn’t be happier. Haven’t seen much action on my cherry scions! How’s everybody doing?
Good Morning!
Hope everybody having a great summer. Had some success with grafts taking but not seeing much growth. Is that normal? Have a few that have like a foot of growth others not much but still alive.
Some grafts grow slowly or not much at all the first year. I have had a inch to 18 inches of growth in the first year. All my grafts have been on dwarf rootstocks or interstems. I have no experience grafting directly onto a high vigor rootstock directly like M111. With M111 I would expect more growth on average but I am sure it varies a lot.
That’s for apples in my climate. With cherries I would expect essentially no growth the first year. I haven’t bench grafted cherries. But all the cherry trees I have bought yielded very little growth the first year.
I would clear away any weeds that compete with the roots or large weeds that shade your grafts. Then fertilize if you haven’t already and mulch. Your soil looks wet so either your watering or rainfall is good. I would just make sure the soil doesn’t lose all of its moisture in a dry spell. Also check the leaves for aphids and potato leafhopper since both of these can slow growth to the point of having no growth.
I don’t push growth the first season of a new graft as I’ve experienced decreased winter hardiness if I do. The next year I go ahead and push growth by fertilizing. I would not push growth at this time by fertilizing, it could push growth too late into the season causing the tree to fail to harden off sufficiently before frost arrives.
For a direct graft onto M111 I’ve seen 5’ or more of growth that first season. For M111/[G41|BUD9] interstems it’s been more like what you’ve experienced, from a few inches to maybe a foot. But those in-ground the second season have really taken off and hit 5’ or more (so far).
Concerned me at first that the interstems didn’t match the direct M111 grafts.They’re catching up and surpassing them now though I think…
It appears as though some of your grafts have shoots coming up from the rootstocks and perhaps competing with the scions for nutrients and growth. Cutting those off once the shoots from the scion are successful will help speed things up. And I see the plant on the right side of top photo has two shoots growing instead of just one. I would remove the slowest growing shoot (usually the lower) to allow the other to grow more quickly.
I am in short season, Zone 3, Montana, and I find my Bud-118 growing much faster than all other bench grafts, including Antonovka. This year, I am trialing Baccata and Ranetka roots, along with the Bud-118, and they appear to grow only half as fast. Supposedly, however, they second year’s growth is said to be better than the first. Baccata seems to have rejected more than the others abd is slowest-growing, with Ranetka only marginally better.
I’ve had the opposite results grafting on established persimmon rootstock. If I don’t fertilize and push enough growth through the new graft, I’m more likely to have graft failure. But, as you said, fertilizing too late can cause hardening issues, so timing is important.
This is a successful graft I did last year. Best 1 I did by far. Does this look normal for a 2nd year? Does that long growth turn into the main trunk? A question I have been searching for.
Yes, that looks normal, and with very good height for the second year. It may look a little skinny to you, right now, but next year it will begin to fatten up and become the “trunk” you are hoping to see. It appears there are a couple of “scaffold” branches way down near the base, only a foot or so off the ground. Is that correct? If so, I would cut them off all the way to the “collar” against the trunk–so they do not come back. You don’t want to grow branches that low which will hang down and touch the ground when bearing fruit, and where any small animal can browse. Many people, like myself, who live where deer are abundant, prune off all lower scaffold branches that are lower than about 4 feet. That way, once the branches grow and develop, the deer are only able to reach a few of the lowest hanging fruit and cannot destroy the branches. I might suggest you “top” that tree at about 4 1/2 to 5 feet this winter, during the dormant period, ino order to promote the growth of branches at that 4 foot level. In the third year, then, with the root system well established, you will be very pleasantly surprised to see how quickly the scaffolds are established, the trunk widens, and the top of the tree continues to grow.
I am totally new to grafting, but purchased M111 rootstocks from Fedco this year and upon arrival yesterday, I see that the rootstock diameters that were stated as being 3/16”-3/8” are more like 3/8-1/2”. Unfortunately I harvested scions from local orchards this winter and they are all about 1/8” smaller than the rootstocks.
What is the best approach to graft these? I am so upset because I spent time learning whip and tongue grafting over the winter, thinking that was the best technique for grafting rootstock to scion, and now I’m not so sure I can use that technique….
This is true, and it works fine. Oftentimes, however, I find that when wrapping the scion with parafilm, it tries to move towards the center of the root and the cambium layers become separated. You will find that stretching and pulling the parafilm in the one direction or the other worsens the movement of the scion, and so it takes a little finesse in wrapping and learning which side to stretch the wrap (if that makes sense). If it appears the scion has moved after wrapping, unwrap and do it again. No biggie.
To avoid the slipping problem and create more cambium contact, I just make what I call a side whip-and-tongue. I slice the scion as you would normally, but then set it against the rootstock (without touching it) to dtermine the size of slice to take off the side. Slice the side to match the scion, make the tongue as normal, and join like that. If you manage to get the side slice just right, the cambium lines up all the way around and on both sides. If the slice is too small, at first, slice slightly deeper until you get a good match, or cut off part of rootstock and try again. (Maybe practice a few before ruining your good wood and roots.) You can wrap tight without worry of movement to one side or the other. Works great for me, and heals very nice. The drawing I made below shows what I mean, but if you want some real pictures let me know and I can take some for you later today.
I know it can be frustrating to have scions that are smaller than what is desirable, but it is inevitable and frequent, and usually happens more often than not. The worst part of the large rootstocks is that the wood is harder, and so harder to cut, and to have to work with–especially when doing a lot of them. You will find, however, you will have great success making the whip-and-tongue by either lining up on one side and wrapping carefully (so as not to move the scion), or by the method I call a side whip-and-tongue. I predict you will have a 95% success rate, so rest assured and try not to worry. Best of luck!! (And let me know if you need more photos.)
Thank you for the detailed response! I’m trying to interpret the drawing but I guess a physical picture would be great too, if you have time. My interpretation is that the large diameter (rootstock) is cut “offset” to one side, so that it will still have full engagement of cambium?
I really appreciate the help, I am very grateful for people like yourself that reach back to people like me….inexperienced.
Check out the modified cleft graft as well. I like this graft for smaller scions and you get a few different points of cambium contact. YouTube may help. Jsacadura has a video on apples and pears with a demonstration of this graft.
I am in big hurry today–and out of practice!–so not my best work. These photos I took of my hurried effort should give you the idea though. I took one photo of end view of root trying to show you need to slice bark for graft on most pointed side in order to get into wood below bark without getting too wide. (Thinking now this should be called bark graft, because barely into wood most times.) You’ll see what I mean when you try it.
Other photos self-explanitory. Photo with knife in tongue to show how bark will separate from root and or scion, and that is no biggie. Just wrap it all together with parafilm and t will heal nicely when done. It also takes some trial and error to discover how thin or shallow to make tongue on root–thinner is better.
