I have a large [6" diameter] male persimmon that I’d like to change to a female. I have dormant scionwood of 3 types [American Lehman A118, Rossyanka, and Tam Cam Asian].
The tree is growing vigorously. I’ve had success with bark grafts on smaller rootstock but am not sure how best to tackle this one.
One option I’m considering is to just cut off the tree at 3-4’ now and let it grow shoots to graft onto next year. But I’d really like to try something this year.
Any suggestions?
Cut at ground level.
Keep the best sprouts .
Graft next spring.
i have no experiance with persimmons.
But id likely cut it low, and than side or bark graft the scions you have now.
side graft like shown here
it will likely still sucker. And you can always prune back the grafts that took this year, and use them as scions to graft to suckers with better placement/growth next season.
This late in the season likely the bark is slipping, so you can bark graft.
I like Hiilbilly’s comment. Either way you could try your current scions if they are large enough on this grafting technique. On my plums and peaches this year it worked very well. Takes a bit of practice to get it to match cambium on most sides, but if you can, and use some tight rubber bands to create a good seal, chances are several would take. The question comes at what height do you start practicing. You could go down almost to ground where you would want your limbs to start, then use some other type of wood to practice your cuts. If you think your cuts are matching, the go ahead and graft using the persimmon scions. If you get frustrated and are not sure your cuts are working, the bark may be slipping so just use standard bark grafts. Either way you can get practice, your scions will not last a year while you wait on shoots, so I suggest using them now. If you fail then let new shoots grow up and try whip & tongues.
Dennis
Kent, wa
Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
I will certainly cut off the tree near the ground. From what [little] I know about persimmons, it seems that if I try some bark grafts on the stump this year, they will likely fail unless I rub off all of the
shoots growing from the stump – which would leave me without shoots to graft onto next year.
Does that make sense? And if so, is there a way around this conundrum?
Can you post a picture of how the tree currently looks? I’ve had success bark grafting onto six or seven main scaffolds of a matureish tree. They all took and have been growing nicely for several years now. I’ve also stump grafted onto a matureish tree, but that took longer to recover.
It’s actually at a friend’s house, about 20 miles away. From what I remember the branches are all pretty high up, say 15’ or more.
That’s one of the reasons I’d like to try grafting this year as who knows what will happen between now and next year since it’s not on my property.
Yeah, 15 feet is tough to work with. You could try cutting the tree to the base and stump grafting all your varieties. Then you could approach graft those varieties the following year so that they grow as a single trunk. Then train it so each different variety on he trunk grows it’s own branch (if that makes sense). I’ve been meaning to try that but haven’t had the right situation yet.
Persimmon wood is prone to rot , wounds larger than ~ 2+ inches often tend to rot inside .
A bark graft onto a 6inch stump may grow, but will start life with a rotten trunk.
Root sprouts that come up several ft.or so away from the trunk will usually avoid this problem
Is it likely to make sprouts nearby, but not on, the trunk? If so, I can graft onto the stump this year, knowing that it’s not the best thing to do. And then graft onto the root sprouts next year.
Yes, often after cutting a large persimmon sprouts will come up all around , several feet away from the trunk.
So you could graft to the cut stump this year , to save your scion wood , and move scions to the new root sprouts next year,.
I would not , my self. Want to graft directly to a 6 inch stump for the long term health of the tree .but temporary should work ,
If it were me I’d cut off limbs no larger than 3-4 inches. Any bigger and stumps can rot before healing over. I’d bark graft.
sounds like a recipe for rot and bark inclusions.
if thought about it to. Since the concept of a complet trunk existing from different genetic material seems like a fun experiment. But i would approach graft young shoots that start close to each other, and not with a 6 inch hole between them.
Everyone: how do you recommend binding and sealing the bark grafts to the stump? I normally use rubber bands and parafilm on small grafts but they won’t do for a big stump. I do have some black tar-like sealer in a can with a brush but haven’t used it for much.
I have used very small tacks to fasten small scions to a large trunk. Covered with some sealer.
I have topworked several 3-4” trunk persimmons. I do bark grafts, they work fine. Rub off any shoot on the stock for two weeks. If the graft isn’t going at that point let the shoots grow and get some to graft to next year. It will keep putting out shoots, they don’t give up easily.
The main problem I have had is the bark grafts can come off in the wind. I am now supporting any bark graft I do with a stake to keep this from happening any more.
Good idea, I will do that, thanks H.
That seems esp. important for a small graft to a big stump – thanks for that Scott, – Larry
I cut the stem at chest level and let 3 to 5 shoots grow below the cut. Next year I graft them at the head level to form a new crown. It’s easy to handle if you’re in age plus you save a large portion of a trunk. In case of virginiana it could be handy for topworking it to kaki for instance.
Thanks Harbin, that’s what I did with some smaller trees [1-2" diameter] last year, and it is working great. They’re all small enough that I used rubber bands and parafilm – most are budding out now.
I keep chasing gnats off the small leaves but they’re not doing much damage so far.