Grow your own fertilizer - Mexican Sunflower (Tithonia Diversifolia)

[TNHunter]

I like the idea of growing and harvesting, using my own mulch, organic biomass, fertilizer…

Did a little research on that and found my way to Mexican Sunflower, specifically Tithonia Diversfiolia.

I did a search here on “Mexican Sunflower” and found some mention of them, but people were mostly just showing pics of the nice flowers. They do have some very nice blooms.

Pete - from GreenDreams (Florida)… Grows them mostly to use for mulch (composting in place, chop and drop style)… and fertilizer. He says we grow our own fertilizer and is talking about this plant (as one of the main parts of that). They buy no fertilizer, grow their own. Mexican Sunflower + Clumping grasses on fruit trees and other things as well.

He says this plant is = chicken manure (when wet).

If you google search this Tithonia diversifolia (wild sunflower)… lots of studies, and details out there with details like below…

…
Green biomass of Tithonia diversifolia was incorporated into three groups of soil (degraded soil, used soil and fallowed soil) with the aim of finding its potential on soil fertility for maize (Zea mays) improvement. There was higher vegetative and reproductive growth of maize in the Tithonia incorporated soil. Early maize growth rate in terms of height and stem girth were better under tithonia applied soil than under the NPK fertilizer soils. Maize cob and grain yields were greatly increased by tithonia biomass than NPK fertilizer.Fallow + Tithonia gave cob and grain weight of 148.2 g/pot ,114.0 g/pot in 2003 and 147.5 g/pot, 115.1 g/pot in 2004. An increase of 94 and 88% grain yield was obtained with tithonia incorporation while 79 and 80% grain yield was obtained in the NPK fertilizer applied soils in 2003 and 2004 respectively under the degraded soil group. It was observed therefore that degraded soils could be recovered for crop production at low cost with tithonia than high cost of NPK fertilizer.
…

Also found this on (NPK) details…

…
Sunflower is reported to have nitrogen (N), phosphorous (P) and potassium (K) the
required elements to make a complete fertilizer (Erpelo P. 2009). In India, one tonne of fresh
leaves and tender stems was reported by Nagarajah and Nazar (2013 ) to provide 5 kg N, 1
kg P2O5 and 10 kg K2O. Philippine Rice researchers have found out that sunflower leaves
have high nitrogen content (2.9 percent oven dry weight) and that fresh sunflower can be
given an equivalent of 60 N kg/ha. Moreover, Nyasimi et al. ( 1997) reported that Tithonia diversifolia leaves (dry matter) contain an average of Nitrogen (N) 3.17 percent, Phosphorus (P) 0.3 percent, Potassium (K) 3.22 percent, Calcium(Ca) 2.0 percent and Magnesium (Mg) 0.3 percent.
…

Now in Pete’s video below, this plant grows in large clumps, and he says in 4 weeks, it grows 8-12 ft tall and that is after being chopped off, at about a foot tall. Now he is down in Florida.

It is very easy to propagate - but he says the seeds will not germinate (sterile), have to get it from cuttings. The older stems, can simply be cut up into pieces, and planted in the dirt and will grow.

Anyone growing this in Zone 6-8… (I am in 7a), that can report on how well it grows for you.
Anyone using it as a chop and drop, mulch, fertilizer ?

Thanks

TNHunter

Grow Your Own Fertilizer? Grow Tithonia diversifolia!

[oscar]

I think there are 2 things to consider.

Soil fertility can be seen as a large holistic thing.

Soil buffering capacity and content of mineral elements (like Nitrogen Phosphorus (or phosphate =PO4^3− = Phosphorus combined with 4 oxigyne) and Kalium) But also micro elements. And the amount of those mineral nutrients present in the soil.

Phosphate and Kalium usually bind readily in the soil. And thus aren’t significantly leached away by rain. They on average stay around for a long time. And get cycled around. (taken up by your plant roots. used to make leaves etc, when those leaves etc fall to the ground and decompose the nutrient sticks around long enough to be taken up by roots again etc.)
you usually fertilize a tiny amount of P and K to counteract the little leaching there is. And a larger fraction to account for the export of P and K in your harvest.

Nitrogen, however is really water soluble and easily leaches down in the soil. So you have to fertilize quite a bit of N to account for the loss due to leaching. And also fertilize quite a bit to account for harvest export. Especially if you export not just fruits or the edible part of your harvest but the whole plant (as animal feed or green manure/compost)
Next to that you also loose some N to the air. (from decomposing plant matter and bacteria)

But soil fertility also depends on water availability. Soil life, like worms aerating the soil. And fungus sharing nutrients with plants. And Organic Matter for the structure of the soil.

i think this mexican sunflower will work good at increasing soil life. And maybe short term bioavailability of mineral nutrients. It might even transport some from deeper layers of the soil to the top layers. And improve soil organic matter and structure slowly.

It however won’t import mineral nutrients. (it can’t create them out of thin air)
Due to it’s better recycling and making bioavailable of P and K, id expect it to slightly decrease the needed maintenance dose required to compensate for exports via leaching.

Your dose required to compensate for harvest export will likely stay the same.

But it likely won’t have a large impact on Nitrogen. Since it is not a N fixer (as far as I’m aware)

Thus unlike an N fixer, i would not really think of it as a “fertilizer” but more of a soil structure/life improvement. Or as a way to extract fertilizer from 1 piece of land and move it to another. (what happens if you import the harvest of this plant grown elsewhere)
It’s use will likely reduce your fertilizer needs. But i don’t think it will replace it.

[TNHunter]

@Oscar you may be right about that… but the study quoted online said this…

…
An increase of 94 and 88% grain yield was obtained with tithonia incorporation while 79 and 80% grain yield was obtained in the NPK fertilizer applied soils.
…

Pete in FL, said they do not purchase and apply any other fertilizers… just this mexican sunflower (green growth) and some type of clump grass… I think to have a mix of green and browns. ???

I do like the idea of having nitrogen fixers in the mix too… right now I have 3 apple trees planted like this… apple, goumi, apple, goumi, apple.

Putting a nitrogen fixer of some kind with each fruit tree, is definitely something I would consider.

This spring I put 50 lbs of compost and a half handful of balanced organic fertilizer on each of my fruit trees, my 2 yr rising star peach is so thick with new growth, I can’t even find the peaches, and my jujube’s have grown near 4 ft this year. I think I am going to have to give those less (or none) next year.

I would not expect this mexican sunflower to be all that I needed to give my fruit trees or berry bushes… but it sure sounds like it might produce all the mulch material I might need, and help with N P K and other fertilization needs too. I use epson salt, green sand, gypsum, and bone meal in my custom tomato fertilizer mix. Lots of trace minerals in that…

I wonder just how those would grow here in TN.

He cut his off at about a foot tall, and said they grew 8-12 ft, in 4 weeks.
Not sure I need that much mulch, but guess I could start with one clump, and add more as needed thru propagation.

I do really like the idea of having something I can grow right here on my place, near my fruit trees and berry bushes, that can easily be chopped and dropped around them for mulch and at least some of their fertilization needs.

Anyone know of a good source where you could buy some of this Tithonia Diversifolia ?

TNHunter

[oscar]

Yea, it seems like and excellent plant with good uses.

I’m not saying it’s not a good idea. I’m just saying the title of the youtube video can be a bit misleading. Since it’s not really “creating” fertilizer. But move moving fertilizer already present in the soil around or making the already present fertilizer bio available.

And you can really “grow” fertilizer. By growing N fixers. They do import fertilizer for you. (from the air to the ground)

[DennisD]

Hi Trev,
Oscar makes some good points. My nephew operates a soil screening and fertilization program in west Tennessee. Until about a year ago I knew that composting and adding it to my soil here in Pacific NW greatly improved its structure and fertility, but I did not fully understand why? Until last year I was discussing the subject at length with my nephew. He explained to me why modern farmers do flyovers to mark their fields in advance of his testing. This allows them to know precisely where to add and specific fertilizer ingredients so as to only add what is needed. He explained the importance of CEC, why it needs to be understood before you can make meaningful progress in improving fertility. If you do obtain the Mexican sunflower, let me know how it works. Meanwhile other legumes when used as green manures and tilled back into the soil, thus being the catalyst for the carbon, nitrogen cycle to work, may be just as effective. These following articles pretty much give the details. Here in the pacific NW we have very little clay content in our volcanic soils, mostly rock, sand and silt with scattered organics. Since Clay is so scarce, adding organics to the soil and keeping a healthy amount of mulch in place for plants to conserve moisture is the only way to increase the CEC of our soils. Those who have Clay in their soil structures can also benefit by adding organics to improve the CEC.

Dennis
Kent, wa

Soil science and CEC articles
CEC benefits
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ay/ay-238.html

Benefits of soil organisms: Soil Organism - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

JEQ-2006-Chem-Comp-of-Leaves.pdf

Benefits of nitrogen fixing legumes, crimson clover best winter cover crop to plant in spring. Alfalfa, white and red clovers are perennials.

FSA-2160.pdf

https://www.soils4teachers.org/biology-life-soil

[TNHunter]

I ordered from a florida food forest farmer on etsy… a bundle of 5 hardwood cuttings. It said that he cuts them fresh and ships them right out to you.

You can just put them in the ground, cover with a little dirt and they sprout and grow.

If I am successful with getting these started here… my hope would be to put a nice layer of mulch on my food forest bed this fall.

Also to put as much as possible in my compost pile … which will be used next spring.

Might have to let one go to flower to check those out.

TNHunter

[alanmercieca]

I grew it once, just for the flowers in zone 7b North Carolina, I germinated the seeds later than the package said too, and still had flowers in time, yet I’d suggest planting them earlier, when the package says to, they grow fast like weeds here Tithonia Torch Sunflower (Red) / Bountiful post area / Bountiful Figs

There is the Red version of this variety Mexican Sunflower - Red Torch, which is more popular, and easier to find than the orange version https://www.amazon.com/Outsidepride-Orange-Tithonia-Mexican-Sunflower/dp/B00608YBLK

[TNHunter]

Got these in the mail yesterday… planted them deep in a nice mix of compost and garden soil.

Noticed today some of the buds/leaves are responding nicely.

I have them in a indirect sunlight only location now… plan to water them regular.

Any tips for successfully getting cuttings like this to grow well ?

They say these root and take off easily. Hope so.

TNHunter

[oscar]

since they are seemingly already making leaves/shoots. Before they have roots, i’d try to mist them. Or keep them in a high air humidity spot. (humidity dome/bag or similair)

I personally love coco peat or a mix of perlite (coarse) and coco-peat. I tend to get the best/fastest root formation when it is slightly on the dry side of damp. (if you squeeze a handful of the medium, it should onlt drip 1-2 drops of water)

[TNHunter]

Thanks for the tips @oscar.

Lots of folks on youtube showing harvesting these things, stripping the leaves and the top narrow part of the stem off to use for mulch/fertilizer… and then just taking these lower thicker green stems, with 3 or so nodes on them, digging a hole in the dirt and planting them deep (like I did) in that compost mix. They water them and talk like that is all that is required. They are just planting them in food forest dirt, nothing special.

I doubt it will be that easy for me…

I have some clear plastic and I can make a dome for it like you said. As long as they are out of the sun that should not overheat them ( I hope ).

My 7 day forecast ranges from 83/59 to 94/71.

One other thing to mention on these, the guy Pete from Green Dreams (youtube vid) above - he said that he uses these as mulch mostly on trees in sunny locations. He cautioned against using those green stalks in shady areas… he said in the shade if you just lay them on top of the ground, they will often root, sprout and grow. In sunny areas no problem with that.

I don’t know if they will grow like that here in southern TN, but hope to find out.

Thanks

TNHunter

[TNHunter]

Some of my mexican sunflower cuttings did root and grow… doing well in that pot with compost mix.

But look what I found growing in the edge of one of my fields… I did not plant this… just growing wild… guess a bird may have.

Cant believe it… pretty sure that is a mexican sunflower… what do you think ?

It is easily 8 ft tall and sprawling out 10-12 ft wide.

Here are a few more up close pics…

Looks like an established clump of roots and shoots that I may be able to divide and plant in full sun to get even more growth…

Cant believe I just found one in the edge of my field…

TNHunter

[alan]

Legumes are not the only thing that fix N from the atmosphere. There is a lot of fungal activity that does the same thing when ample organic matter is added to the soil. This may be playing a part in the huge increases in productivity created by adding this OM from Mexican sunflowers to the soil. It certainly happens over time with wood chips- at first their decomposition removes N, but after a while this N fixing creates a strong net gain of available N. For fruit trees, this, combined with a huge increase in available water that occurs over time with annual mulching, can become too much of a good thing- at least where there tends to be ample rain during the growing and harvest season.

Moderate growth is the goal of the fruit grower once trees are established. Quick release N does allow more control than organically derived N. For established trees a surge of available N may be helpful in spring but harmful during summer when organically derived N tends to crank up when there is enough water to feed the process.

[TNHunter]

@alan … I am planning to purchase a chipper shredder soon… and my goal is to be able to produce much of my own mulch for my food forest beds.

I will be chipping some wood … got thousands of saplings in the edge of my fields and 27 acres of timber… and plan to shred some of this mexican sunflower into the mix as well… or could just use it as chop n drop.

I have been collecting lots of tender shoots from my fields… lots of winged sumac, sour wood, Johnson grass, other grasses… and chopping that up and using it for mulch.

I collected several wheel Barrow loads of that yesterday morn and mulched some beds with it.

When I get my chipper shredder… I plan to chip shred wood, branches, saplings, and this mix that i can easily collect from my fields… including grass… as well as mexican sunflower…

Should make a really nice mulch… wood chips yes… but so much more too…

TNHunter

[alan]

I used to hunt for discarded piles of mowed grass because it is such a good fertilizer for stimulating plant vigor- as long as it is aerated enough not to become stinking wet garbage that can suffocate roots. Mixed with thick tree leaves like oak, it can be perfect mulch. OM spread on the soils surface provides significant advantages over soil incorporation, or transformed in a compost pile, bang for the buck, particularly in average to good soil.

I’m a strong advocate of using what is around with the least processing possible.

[RedSun]

A large farm field in my local farmer market is filled with sunflowers. It was a surprise to see that in many years. I thought they grow sunflowers for seeds or feeds. But It was planted very densely and they did not care for the weeds. So now I think they want to rest the field for a year…

[oscar]

@alan

Legumes are not the only thing that fix N from the atmosphere. There is a lot of fungal activity that does the same thing when ample organic matter is added to the soil.

i was not aware of this. Could you elaborate? do you have a source for fungus fixing Nitrogen from the atmosphere?

I thought fungus got most of it’s nutrients from decomposing organic material.

big picture if i oversimplify. you have things that “cycle” nutrients and make it more (bio) available. Like for example the mexican sunflower, and fungus

And you have things that fix (import) nutrients.
Like legumes. Legumes literally take N from the air, and fix it in the soil.

importing compost, wood chips or any organic material, is actually fertilizing. Usually slow release though.

Phosphorus has verry low soil mobility, and thus erodes verry slowly with rain. And thus you usualy only need to fertilize a little P, to account for the exported P thats in the things your harvest.

Kalium also has low soil mobility. higher than P though. So the same goes for that. You fertilize to compensate for export mainly, and a little to compensate for it raining away to groundwater.

Nitrogen however is very soil mobile. And thus easily rains away. So this means you fertilize enough N to compensate for the N your exporting (harvested and exported material) and you have to fertilize to compensate for the N raining to groundwater.

This is why N fixers are so awesome.
In most orchards due to the deep rooting nature, P and K are cycled really efficiently. And thus if enough is present you only have to account for export due to harvest.

N however is a different story, if you don’t fertilize, it will drop rapidly.
(mulch compost ect is also fertilization. since the organic material contains the NPK’s although in a “slow release” form.)

you see this to when a lot of animal manure has been used. The P and K tend to build up in the soil, and will be plenty years of not decades later. The N however can be deficient.

[alan]

It’s been a while since I went to school and your interpretation is currently the accepted one. However, it doesn’t change the practical affect of nitrogen poor mulch ultimately adding N to the soil, although the work of fixing it from the atmosphere is being done by bacteria in symbiosis with mycorrhizal fungi.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I don’t have enough time to really keep up with all aspects of botanical biological science and mostly focus on the information that serves my practical use.

Relationship between nitrogen fixation and mycorrhiza - World Journal of...

[alan]

Speaking of Mexican crops and fertilizer. Corn that acquires its own nitrogen identified, reducing need for fertilizer

And on the subject of mulch excessively increasing fertility of soil for fruit trees.

Method 1. Wood chip mulch made from composted hardwood bark from New York sawmills, reapplied every three years. After 12 years, he said, the decaying bark has developed a thick layer of humus just above the mineral soil, “like a vein of coal, “ full of tree roots.

The bark mulch tied up a lot of nitrogen in the early years, but after eight years, Merwin said, the trees in mulch really began to outgrow the others.

“They didn’t produce more fruit, they just got bigger,” he said. “The soil became almost too fertile for growing apples, and we began to see some excess runoff and leaching of nitrogen and phosphorus from the mulch treatment.”

Over 17 years, he said, organic matter content doubled from 4.5 percent to 9 percent from the addition of 4 inches of bark mulch every three years. The low-nitrogen mulch (less than 1 percent N) eventually broke down and was later able to generate 100 pounds of nitrogen per acre per year – more than the trees needed or could take up.

“We used to think that adding organic matter was always a good thing, but now we know at some point it may begin to leach nutrients. Nonetheless, all things considered, this was the second best way to manage an orchard floor, “ he said.

This article has more on the general subject and I lifted the above paragraphs from it. Keeping Under Cover: The Ideal Look of an Orchard Floor - Fruit Growers News

[oscar]

thanks alan

Interesting articles.
And your right, it’s the bacteria that actually fix the N.
The legumes are just a good host for the bacteria,

N-fixing bacteria have been found even inside the fungal mantle of ectomycorrhizae

This quote from your link, lead me to suspect that the fungus might also host some N fixing bacteria, although if never seen proof of this being substantial. As far as i know, the majority of N fixing is done by bacteria in symbiosis with plants. Those plants might simultaneously be in symbiosis with a fungus.

Fixing N from the atmosphere actually takes quite a lot of energy. The bacteria usually get that from a plant (like legumes) and those plants get it from sunlight.

practically though, your soil is a system that constantly leaches N trough rainwater, but also from soil activity straight to the atmosphere. (as gas)

You can replace this N export, either by fertilizing. (mulch is fertilizer to, although slow release) or by having a “system” that fixes it from the atmosphere to the soil. Like legumes. or Actinorhizal plant - Wikipedia

[alan]

Somewhere I read a comment from Cornell that the experiment above suggested that the decaying mulch was hosting N fixing bacteria. or it might have been fungus, because the comment was made a very long time ago. Where do you think all that N is coming from?- they are only mulching once every 3 years and not an especially thick layer, just about the normal depth recommended for an ANNUAL app of wood chips. They are starting with soil with an unusually high level of organic matter for an agricultural soil, however. That said, it seems very possible that an unnatural increase in carbohydrate added to soil might create an unusually high population of free (non nodule) nitrogen fixing bacteria.

Here is another interesting article on the general subject. Bacteria and fungi can contribute to nutrients bioavailability and aggregate formation in degraded soils - ScienceDirect

and Nitrogen Fixation Outside and Inside Plant Tissues | IntechOpen