I got the idea from speedbreeding & just thought if it worked for so many other species, why not this one?
Tropical Relatives? Wha I wasn’t aware of any? Are you talking about the Chinese Mayapple species from Taiwan? They are still relatively cold hardy (USDA Hardiness Zone to zone 6 (5b to 8b if stretched).
Can’t you stimulate multiple season in 1 year? If more sunlight = faster fruiting, doesn’t that also mean faster going dormant to fruit another time?
What happens to those growing in Zone 9?
Me too, as I’ve heard they take multiple years to fruit from seed. I just know more sunlight speed runs maturity, still the first year only sends up a seedling cotyledon (So at best 2 years, but if I can stimulate multiple seasons in 1 year, I can breed much faster). Here are my notes on growing them from seed, what do you think? Suggest Any improvements or changes?
Considering P peltatum does most of its growth in the spring, I say good luck getting more growth from artificially long days. Multiple generations in a year is a technique more easily used on annual plants which are easily triggered to flower and seed very quickly after germination.
I expect you’d only be able to get a second flush of growth reliably from P. peltatum if you give it an artificial winter half way through the season so that the dormant buds waiting for next year will push growth. However, that would also mean that the existing growth from earlier in the season would be forced to die back early and therefore give it less time to produce energy reserves to store in the rhizome. Plants are incredibly diverse, and techniques that manipulate them do not generally apply across the board to all species.
Good thinking! Since those speed breeders were mostly working with annuals. I wonder why mayapples don’t send another shoot in the cool season during fall? How do they know winter has past to start growing in spring? I’m still curious what constant light would do, I mean how do Mayapples grow in Alaska (They can be cold hardy enough there), you seen the huge veggies that grow there right? It’s because they get lots of sunlight during 1 half of the year.
Interesting, but yea it needs to store enough energy in it’s roots. There will be somethings to play around with, ideally I’d like to speed breed Mayapples but if I have callaboraters crossing different Mayapple seecies, it might not be neccesarry.
Indeed, some Mayapples were previously placed in their own genera. I still want to cross them all.
Good Idea, altho I don’t know of any salt tolerant Mayapple species.
I did however see an Intaturalist photo of Podophyllum grayi growing next to concrete bed, so not saying those genetics don’t exist or could emerge from all the wide crossing.
I sent them some seeds & rhizomes of a heavy fruiting patch I found years ago (even when transplanted to a shade garden, ~9/10 flowered). And that’s the sort of material I’d recommend starting from.
I don’t have land either, but I’m not above guerrilla planting natives in public spaces.
Wow! I didn’t know this existed, nice find! I’m glad to know others are also working on it. I want to callaborate with them.
I tried to sign up so I can work with them but ran into an email issue. I tried to email them about it, so we’ll see what happens. If I can’t make an account, maybe I’ll have to found a way around it to work with those folks.
Do they know about the other Podophyllum species? Have they seen this post?
Nice! Do you still have seeds? Did the transplant go well?
I’ve tried to Ninja Garden on land I don’t own as well. I’ve learned location can make or break your efforts. I’ve tried many locations but none were yielded much success (If at all). Deer & Rabbits ate everything & A Water Pipe was installed thru the Ninja Garden in 1 open forrest location. Pesticides were sprayed in another location, killing everything.
Idk, why it’s called Guerrilla gardening, it’s not war-fare . No need to start another pointless war.
This project is several years running, I doubt Nate/EFN has seen this post. But they’re definitely aware of Sinopodophyllum spp. Their project is multifaceted; they’re simultaneously (and separately) looking to domesticate may apples as a food but also find high-toxin varieties to supplant the industrial harvesting of plants from the wild in China for medicine, which is decimating those populations. The latter goal might already be solved; Ive seen at least one article saying American Mayapple has enough toxins in the greens to be an annually harvested crop.
The mother patch is located near an old address. I plan to visit there later in the year & grab some rhizomes. The several transplants I tried (with dormant rhizomes) all worked great. I don’t have any seeds atm.
There is very much already a “war” on nature & food sovereignty going on. The Resistance needs you!
I hope I can get in contact with them, maybe you can deliver the messgae since I’m having email issues with EFN? Is Nate on these forums I can message or does he prefer email?
Fantastic! Have they did any P. hexandrum x P. peltatum crosses yet? I hope they’re aware of the Blue Mayapple & other Multi-fruited Chinese Mayapples too. If not send them this forum.
Alright then, I just don’t want to grow bitter during “war”. This the attitude I want to maintain.
@Schlecht Grows well where exactly? I think so, I asked a lot of Inaturalist users in hopes of finding out what they taste like. Some said fruits taste insipid (Meaning like Nothing Water) vs others describe it like Tomato x Pawpaw. Perhaps different populations taste different or they are eating it at the wrong stage (If so, only the fully ripe fruit is edible like with the American Yellow Mayapple).
Please try it when the fruit is fully ripe, spit out seeds & discard the skin as you suck the pulp, I’m really curious how you’d describe the flavor. I would’ve tried it myself had they grew wild where I live or were sold in grocery stores.
@Ethancactus I do the same thing too! Same with every other wild edible I eat so more of them grow.
@Professor_Porcupine Back in the day I sent a message to the email listed on the EFN website, & Nate Kleinman eventually emailed me back. I’m not sure they’re interested in interspecies crosses, & I’m not either. AFAIK none of them have been selected for fruit quality, & it sounds like P. peltatum has the best flavor of the bunch.
hmm… you could be right but many Mayapples haven’t been tasted much or have their flavor info online to easily look up (It isn’t fair to say unless we’ve at least gave the other species a taste test, Plus Hybrid offspring have potential to taste better than both parent species). That being said I think both paths to domestication are great, Domestication within P. peltatum & Domestication thru interspecific hybridizations.
Plus just think about what epicness will happen when our projects finally cross with each other?
@Professor_Porcupine
Across Northern Europe, at least. They are everywhere in garden nurseries but only sold as ornamentals. I heard its fruits are purgative… maybe that is solely when underripe?
I didn’t buy one for my garden and if it tastes like tomato I probably will not like it.
Indeed, while researching almost all of the shop websites were based in Europe. I’ve heard fruits are laxative but I’ve also heard the same thing about the American Yellow Mayapple fruits too. If it’s underripe, it’s probably laxative but if it’s in unripe it will be toxic & taste bitter. I’ve eaten like ~20 fruits of Podophyllum peltatum in one sitting & didn’t notice any laxative effects (Others also reported the same thing with fully ripe fruits). Likely the fully ripe fruits of the Podophyllum hexandrum are just as equally laxative if at all.
That’s the thing, idk if actually taste like Tomato or pawpaw. I’ve asked around Inaturalist & that’s just what 1 user said, others said it taste insipid. Thus the taste info I’ve researched is inconclusive (Maybe the users ate fruits at different stages, maybe different plants taste different, maybe they interpret taste buds differently, too many factors to know for certain without trying it yourself). I’m not sure what fully ripe fruits taste like because I’ve never tried it myself to know or watched a Youtuber try it.
I assume it tastes about as good as the American Yellow Mayapple (Podophyllum peltatum). The other Many-Fruited Asian Mayapples (Podophyllum pleianthum & versipelle Complex) may taste even better. According to @GrapeNut the ripe fruits smelled like Banana with some passionfruit!
Your welcome! Ooh! Fantastic! Do they also sell seeds?
Anyhow, if they do fruit for you, you can always save seeds no?
Which one are you looking to buy?
Many of them are very closely related species (Those that used to be Dysosma genus), they could be synonyms but more of a species complex depending on how you count them (1 Super Diverse species with lots of subspecies vs many very closely related species).
Included in the Species complex are D. majoensis, D. versipellis, D. difformis, D. pleiantha. D. aurantiocaulis
You can consider them all the same species but where each “species” functions like a variety/cultivar. You can see this in effect on the phylogenic trees.
In fact many nurserys who sell species of this complex (Aka all those sold as “Hybrid” Podophyllum) don’t actually remember which exact species made up many of the hybrids.
I have a feeling the many-fruited species of this complex are more worth it than P. hexandrum only because they make more fruits per plant. Still both are good options. Do you have American Yellow Mayapple Podophyllum peltatum?
. No need to start another pointless war.
(It isn’t fair to say unless we’ve at least gave the other species a taste test, Plus Hybrid offspring have potential to taste better than both parent species). That being said I think both paths to domestication are great, Domestication within P. peltatum & Domestication thru interspecific hybridizations.
