Steven Edholm’s videos are great learning tools especially for explaining modified central leader training
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Here’s the start to his fruit tree training videos if you haven’t watch them already
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You got a good spread of ripening dates and flavors there. Good job!
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Okay guys I have another apple dilemma. I placed my order for new trees, and then impulsively placed another one at a different nursery. Lol.
This is the first year I’ve worried about or studied rootstock. I ordered GoldRush (G935) , Golden Russet(G214) and Liberty(G11) all from Cummins and then after reading a thread about the G series dwarf roots having lots of drawbacks I got worried and canceled the order and then placed an order for the same trees at One Green World instead. However this time the two ‘Golds’ are on M7 and Liberty on M26…
Then I read all sorts of bad about both of those Malling roots too… ARE THERE ANY ROOTS ANYONE ACTUALLY LIKES?
I am just a hobby grower and have limited space. All my existing apples are on M111 and I have so far been fairly pleased, but they are all 4th leaf or younger and none are quite bearing age and are still small trees. I have a copy of “Grow a Little Fruit Tree” and the author states that M111 is all she will use due to its resilience and the fact it can be kept small through diligent pruning.
I wanted to try dwarf trees this year just because they fascinate me, but if they’re gonna be snapping at the graft union, or dying from drought stress because I didn’t water them for a week I’m not sure that they are appropriate. I know I sound facetious but the thread I had read about @Chikn having lost so many trees in a windstorm and someone else having problems with trees dying in a summer drought it really concerns me.
At this point I don’t know whether to reinstate my order at Cummins for the dwarf trees or just keep my order with the M7 and M26 roots…
m111 seems to be a steadfast favorite. The bud series also seems to be liked. I’m trying bud10 as there isn’t much info on it.
It’s the Internet. It’s great for getting information but it’s all info that isn’t vetted. Anyone can say whatever they want. I find it interesting, amusing, and pretty annoying all at once the conflicting info about individual roots and cultivars. One person says golden russet is disease resistant, the next says it’s disease prone. One says that seedling trees will have 95% chance of being a spitter, the next says that the first random seedling they planted had great fruit. “M111 TAKES 6-10 YEARS TO FRUIT!”: I have 3 year old trees with flowers on m111. Ive decided that when it’s this conflicting then it normally means most anything will work for people like us. If your living doesn’t depend on your crop, then trying to maximize and perfect everything just muddies the waters. Whatever someone near you grows, on a particular rootstock, then grow that. If no body around you grows anything then essentially you are the guinea pig my friend. Take your pick.
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Also the 3 year old tree on m111 that has flowers isn’t big either. A lot goes into what makes a tree bear fruit. Simply holding back nitrogen and water can produce a crop from what I’ve read. This is Wickson, 3 years old, with blossoms all over. There would be more if I hadn’t picked them off to train scaffold branches
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I agree the internet is filled with conflicting information. My brain is always immediately analytical and I try to figure everything out to a T and it is usually to my own detriment. At this point I guess I will accept my Guinea pig status. I suppose a mix of different roots and varieties would suffice as a good experiment if nothing else.
I do have some trees on M111 that surprised me with flowers sooner than I’d expect, however the flowers did not give rise to fruit. I think this year will be the year I get at least a few pieces of decent fruit from most of my oldest trees. I am pretty patient when it comes to fruit and focus mostly on good tree form, and proper training.
I love trees of any kind. The fruit is almost simply a bonus. Hah! I would say though that it would be heartbreaking to come out to find my dwarf trees have snapped at the graft union. I have had deer wreck trees, and that hurts, but it is just sort of part of the game in my area. Now a tree failing because I chose a shitty rootstock… I’d probably end up needing therapy. Hahaha. 
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One of my old Goldrush is on G 935 with zero problems. I keep it pruned short so I can reach with no ladder and 935 is fine with that. I staked it for a few years but pulled the T post a couple years ago.
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@hambone Do you have it in a sheltered location? Do you provide supplemental watering during summer?
I am encouraged to hear that it has done well for you, my new GoldRush will be on that same root. I think that’s probably the tree I am most excited for this year.
Another thing that flies in the face of all the conventional wisdom is that the m111/Wickson tree pictured has the graft union buried (on purpose). Internet says that will result in the tree becoming as vigorous as a seedling and take years to fruit etc.
But yea there’s lots of stuff that can aid in cropping. There are some things out there about apple roots that seems to be a given, such as size and general disease resistance. But the malling rootstocks are and have been production orchard standards for a long time from what I’ve seen. Have you looked into interstem or double worked trees? Skillcult has some videos on it if you’re willing to do some grafting of your own.
I empathize with the overanalyzing. If it were me then I would go with m111, simply because it’s almost unanimously accepted as the hardiest rootstock besides seedlings. Or if going with dwarf trees I’d use the bud series. Bud9 or Bud10 is worth trying. According to all the data it seems to been as resistant to collar rot and fire blight as any other. It’s cold hardy. It’s precocious.
Keep in mind that I haven’t harvested any apples off our own trees yet. But I have kind of obsessed over this, to a fault probably, for close to 5 years now, and observed a lot of people’s personal information and experience, as well as a bit of my own. Take the personal experience of those above who have been doing this a long time, and just put the tree in the ground. Planting a tree that never fruits is better than thinking about planting a tree that might fruit but never doing it
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Not sheltered at all- right in the prevailing wind in a wind corridor coming down the creek. I water all my newly planted trees weekly, absent rain, the first summer only. Deep mulch is your friend. Deep and wide, with free tree company wood chips- I highly recommend for all sorts of reasons. This requires a small 15 inch tall hardware cloth cage at base of trunk to keep mulch off the bark so it won’t rot. Just stake for a few years and put the stake on the windward side, and keep tree pruned low.
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Very good insight from the both of you. Thank you.
Perhaps next year I will look into the Bud rootstock.
G969 and G890 are supposed to be able to make free-standing trees. I am using primarily G969 for my trees. G890 is supposed to do well with some of the low-vigor varieties.
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Of the Geneva rootstocks, G.41 is possibly the most prone to graft union breakage. If your growing area gets crazy wind, then it’s certainly something to consider. Mine is somewhat sheltered from the worst of the wind and so far none have broken. When hurricane Helene came through the winds were worse than we’d ever seen and 10+ trees were blown over. The G.41 portion bent, but didn’t break and the graft union was also fine. All are whip-and-tongue grafted (M111 + G41 + Cultivar interstem). The ones which blew over were unsupported and now have a couple pieces of bamboo to hold them.
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Good to know about G41. On top of the fact that I haven’t any trees with that root, my property is fortunately fairly well sheltered from the wind.
My plan is to stake all of the dwarf trees for 3-5 years and evaluate after that. I think I will plant them closer to the house so watering is not such a chore.
When summer drought hits, should I just be watering on a schedule, or should I look for signs of drought stress? I really prefer not irrigating much at all because I really prefer a naturalistic style of gardening. I barely water my roses, shrubs, and almost never water my lawn.
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If your trees are mulched properly you shouldn’t need to water beyond first summer, maybe second summer in severe/biblical drought. Deep mulch is your friend. Not talking about dwarfs that have small root mass.
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How deep we talking? I’m pretty good about piling four inches of woodchips usually, but I got a ten yard pile in the driveway currently waiting for allocation.
5 to 6 inches deep and WIDE, say 8 to 10 feet. Hardware cloth trunk protector is the key to this working.
i have trees both on m111 and b118. b118 is the more vigorous grower of the 2. im in a colder environment (z4b) so a bigger tree with more roots is needed to survive here. any dwarf would not make it here without alot of t.l.c. St. Lawerence nursey only sells trees grafted to standard cold hardy Russian rootstock for northern growers for that reason but it’s a tradeoff, as depending what variety is grafted, it could take 6 yrs. or more to fruit.
Thats interesting. Here, m111 is more vigorous and results in a " beefier" tree. Neither induces bearing much earlier than seedling. B118 also shows a tendency to lean. Different soils/locations=different results
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