I was wondering if I could get some feedback on a small orchard that I’m working on in my front yard? I’d like to maximize the diversity with different fruits. I really don’t need a lot of production since it’s just for my wife and I. I have super sandy soil so I’m also considering an irrigation system instead of dragging the hose down there all the time or carrying buckets of water.
The white outlined trees are what I already have planted. Technically I’m zone 5, but I may be pushing it with the peach. For the rest I’m going to plant varieties rated for zone 4 after last winter. I’ve had a few trees die on me. One was a Toka plum, I’m not sure what to plant in it’s place. I’m going to need another pollinator for the Pipestone plum I planted last year. I tried the DWN BYOC method with the apricots. I’m not sure how they’ll do… I’m also not dead set on apples on the north side. The entire space is about .20 acres.
I’d really like a European plum or two, maybe another pear if I can keep it small, and possibly a cherry. What are your must have varieties for shorter seasons? Any thoughts on spacing? The current trees are 20-25’ apart. Can I tighten that up with the stone fruits and dwarf apples?
I’m not trying to to plant everything next year, but would just like a game plan. Thanks for any feedback!
I like planting fruit trees 20 to 25 feet apart they look better that way but for many fruits trees it is not required. A lot depends on the rootstock you use. Usually you can Google and find the spacing requirements for the rootstock - example there may be a significant spacing difference between G11 - G41 - MM106 - MM111 rootstock for apples. Same thing for cherry trees - rootstock changes the spacing equation. Peaches on standard rootstock - Lovell, Bailey, Halford, Nemaguard, seedling produce similar sized trees but you can control the size with aggressive pruning. Citation and plum rootstock produce smaller peach trees but I would not recommend those for zone 5/4. Bailey is your best bet for rootstock on peaches. Nemaguard is not cold hardy. I rarely space 20 to 25 feet any more on my fruit trees because I trying to get more varieties in a finite space. Best of luck with your orchard.
Hello,
I would space the entire orchard closer.
Also, I think mulching the entire area is less work and input intensive than irrigation.
These days you can get mulch for free using chipdrop.
I would spend considerable time on here consulting some of the experts on interesting/quality varieties that are also cold hardy.
Can you tell us the dimensions of this space?
Thanks
Thanks, I wish I knew what the rootstock was on the existing apples and pears. I’m going to try and start grafting my own or buy from a nursery that specifies from now on instead of the local one. The apples are labeled semi dwarf is all I know… I think I followed the label when I planted them. At the time I just wanted to plant some trees after we moved here a couple years ago. Now, after a couple fatalities I’m trying to actually plan haha.
Mulching would be nice, grass doesn’t grow well there anyway. I’ve been on the chipdrop list all year and nothing yet. They must not be in my area. I even put the $20 down for a delivery.
I’ve already got some great feedback on some apples from an earlier post.
This should be pretty close to the dimensions. I am going to leave a some room by the driveway for plowing snow in the winter.
If this helps, I just measured my apple orchard spacing. My trees are 18 feet apart in all directions.
My rootstocks are almost all mm111. My trees are now 12 years old and I feel like the spacing is just fine if not a little far. I probably could have done 15 feet if I wanted to.
I started chipdrop with 20 dollars and waited a month. The next time I put 40 dollars and got chips the next day. If a wind storm comes through you will get chips.
That’s helpful, how tall do you keep them? Do you have anything else grower other than apples? I’m going to keep trying with chipdrop. I ended up taking a few trees down and rented a wood chipper this summer. I have a pretty big pile to pull from for awhile, but will need more if I plan on mulching the entire area.
I would put so many more trees there its just not funny and if your going organic or no/low spray have you thought about interplanting small perrenials near your trees to help pollinator and predatory insects as well as make things more attractive looking? I would definitely add more peaches and think about branching into hardy jujube, american persimmon, a dwarf gerardi mulberry or a huge illinois everbearing mulberry. Have you looked into any of the juliet and romeo cherries and maybe a row of some grape vines, raspberries and currants as well as some strawberries to extend your season. Don’t come here for advice on planting less things
If your goal is to maximize diversity/variety in a smaller area, you might want to consider incorporating espalier into your design. Our yard is similar in size to your orchard area (about 75’ N-S x 100’ E-W in our case), but with our house in the middle. We currently have something like 40 apples trees and 20 pear trees planted in Belgian fences (two feet apart, with the trees trained to overlapping Ys, though some of the trees are still ungrafted and untrained rootstock at this point). One fence will have about twenty-five trees in a run of about 50 feet, while the other will eventually have about 35 trees in a L-shaped fence with a total run of about 70 feet.
Our trees are just a couple years old, and I am very much a beginner, so I can’t say whether our approach will turn out to be a good idea for us or not, let alone whether it would be a good idea for you. But it does make it possible to fit in a lot of varieties, and if you graft your own trees, it’s pretty economical, in the neighborhood of ten bucks a tree, which probably comes to less than a nice-looking fence of the same length would cost.
Hi Travis,
I do not keep my trees very tall. 10 feet at the most. It take some work to keep trees on mm111 pruned but not too bad. I do not like ladders.
My main orchard is about 25 apple trees. I have lots of other trees around my property too.
Dave Wilson Nursery’s Back Yard Orchard Culture, tight grouping of a tree planting method. Before anyone jumps into it, I suggest you read other threads about people’s opinons on this method first.
@RichardRoundTree - Any recommendations for perennials? I have a good size flower bed across the driveway that I’m trying to get established. I’ve looked at jujube but I’m not sure I have a hot enough season to ripen them properly. Do you know a good rootstock source? I have a hard time spending $50 on a tree if I don’t know if it’ll make it or not. I’ve considered trying them in pots. Same thing with persimmon - not sure if I can get them to ripen, but have considered trying. Thanks for the suggestions on cherries, I’ll look at those. My backyard has been unofficially dedicated to berries and small fruits. I’m planning on putting two rows of raspberries, a row of currants/gooseberries, row of blueberries, grapes, and maybe a row of cordon apples eventually. I’ve already got some strawberries, hops, honeyberries, and raspberries. I have about a half acre or so that’s just been weeds I need to do something with. I’m also thinking about medlar and a shipova tree.
@JinMA - Thanks for the suggestion. I’m not sure how to incorporate it. The fence I need is for deer haha! You can’t see it well in the picture, but there’s a shed to the south. I think it’d be neat to do a espalier on the north side of it. I just don’t know what would do well without much direct sun… I do want to plant a row of cordon apples in my backyard. I have an area that I can get about 50’ rows that get full sun most of the day, and I can run a hose out there easily for irrigating. I just like the ideas of a lot of varieties. I have a mild addiction to collecting plants!
@ribs1 - That’s good to know. I don’t want to be crawling around on ladders. I’ve read mixed opinions on past posts that pruning will just cause vegetative growth and not much fruit.
Good point. I have the tendency to overwhelm myself sometimes
I mainly want to consider spacing so I have room to plant in the future if I want and not end up with a situation where I’m trying to squeeze trees in where I shouldn’t.
Say that now but after a few years you will hear about a variety and say to your self… hmmmm I can squeeze it in. Don’t give in. Graft. Your trees are young wait till your buried in fruit.
True but if your like me and others I hate cutting a tree down, when several years in you’ve nurtured it so long. And it looks like your about to really get a harvest. For me I’ve watered it and pruned, training you’ve got it to size it’s like a kid I guess is the best way to describe it.
