Thanks for letting me off the hook! You know, for all the various problems I have with fruit trees, I actually ery rarely completely loose one to death. THe exception to that is apricot trees which I’ve had die a LOT (I’m convinced its some kind of wilting disease). So that’s part of why I really hated to loose your tree.
BTW…didn’t you plant your Honey Jar the same year I did and several of us ordered them. If so, then this is its 3rd season now in case you’ve lost track. I only know because I put the plant month and year on my tags. Hope we both get a lot of jujubes this year. I really enjoyed them last year.
Literally lost everyone of my jujube trees last year. Froze to the ground below rootstock. Nothing but growth from the rootstock coming up now. That freeze was way late when the trees was loaded with new green growth. Sucks. Will have to get some more again some time.
sorry to hear that @zazlev … Quite a handful of us here are growing new cultivars from seed. Sharing scionwood has always been a good thing, but quite certain that sharing root cuttings/suckers of new cultivars will be the way to go. The above-ground stems could dieback, but new growth from rootball will be of the same desirable cultivar.
forgot to add, jfae sometimes sells self-rooted cultivars, which gets sold out quickly. Good thing is that a handful of us here already managed to propagate common cultivars as self-rooted cuttings.
the aim now is to broadcast USA-bred(seed-grown) cultivars and Chinese/Korean/Soviet -bred cultivars as self-rooted clones. While this still takes quite sometime to mass-produce, the deliberate intent behind it will inevitably be the standard practice for juju propagation
If the graft dies due to cold temperatures or other issues, the roots will produce a true to type fruit when it re- grows.
edit: Speaking of which, @jujubemulberry I have a honeyjar planted in a “bed” that I want to raise in elevation but don’t really want to re-plant the tree. Do you think that slowly building up soil around the trunk would be a wise move, or should I take a different approach?
unlike apples and peaches which can present with undesirable growth patterns, including possibly being short-lived as self-rooted cuttings or airlayers(due to low resistance to soil conditions or soil-borne pests/diseases, or perhaps due to clonal senescence), jujubes can be grown on their own roots as an “alternative” insurance policy. The dieback down to the graft due to a hard freeze (after leafing out) immediately wipes out the desired cultivar.
a self-rooted juju that dies back to the ground will sucker and re-establish the cultivar from roots(since the roots are the same species as the above-ground stems), so it will be a most desired effect of die-back. You never have to graft.
reposting our bare-bones tutorial below to encourage everyone to massproduce jujus on their own roots. It is fun and exciting, apart from extremely intriguing, especially when propagating cultivar clones that have been around for centuries! Cultivars from china were imported as budwood, and many are quite ancient. Getting stems to root is not easy(where am at), but possible, and once rooted, one can just poach root cuttings/suckers from the rootball on a yearly basis. I admit having some growth issues with an HJ i cloned several years ago which died due to unknown causes, (i think may have underwatered them at some point in the middle of summer–as young specimens with sparse rooting) butJFAE managed to root hj’s and the specimen obtained from them seems to be doing well after a couple of years on its own roots.
there aren’t many studies(if at all, any) about juju grafts and how to treat them, but taking into consideration jfae’s self-rooted hj, i don’t see any disadvantages of burying your grafted hj graft junction in earth. Dirt around the stem will serve as insulation, and if by some stroke of luck your hj graft roots out(having access to soil and moisture), you will have solid insurance that any dieback in the future will not equate to the death of the hj portion. Roots aren’t just thermally protected from a deep-freeze due to insulative properties of mulch and dirt., but they are also inherently protected by the anti-freeze effects of sugars and proteins that get stored in them in large amounts. The vast majority of a tree’s food depot is stored in the roots. An added plus is that(unlike juju stems which present with finite nodes on specific areas of stems) juju roots have microscopic adventitious nodes along their lengths, which make rootstock difficult to kill.
Of course we only want to kill thorny rootstock with small/sour fruits, but an indestructible hj rootball would be most welcome
If the tree dies to the roots every so often there isn’t much point of growing it, or is it? Jujube is hardy to zone 6 and the wild Z. acidojujuba (or Z. spinosa if you like) is hardy to zone 5. It is also more adaptable to the harsh conditions and therefore used in China and elsewhere as a good rootstock for the cultivars.
As to what “other issues” might be leaves me wondering…perhaps an envious neighbour sneaking to your property at night cutting your trees below graft?..jujubes are late shooters and any damage from the late spring frosts is rarely an issue.
No, I can’t see any advantage in self-rooted plants unless they are produced by tissue culture, but this is apparently not so easy and commercially non viable.
Apart from the fact that some cultivars may be weaker growers on their own roots and also less hardy, the beauty of grafting is that you can do it in any height of the rootstock and if you are not happy with a particular specimen you can regraft it to something better any time you wish.
Damage from rodents, rabbits, or deer come to mind for my particular case. I am in zone 6, so for me personally hardiness is not an issue for an “own roots” plant, but you make a very valid point for hardiness in z5 for rootstock! If I had a honey jar making suckers, I’d personally prefer that to the rootstock to dig up additional trees down the road without the hassle of grafting.
there are several varieties of spinosa-type(wild-type) rootstock. I can’t even identify with any degree of certainty what true spinosas are, and merely label seedlings as wild-types if the fruits are small/bland/sour and if the branches are more spiny than others, especially if even the leaf fronds have thorns at their undersides. Have bought grafted jujus from lowes, home depot, ebay, and several other nurseries, including Mr Meyer’s and the various rootstock seem to be just as diverse as the named cultivars grafted to them!
am sure some, if not many, of those spinosa-type rootstock will be hardy to zone5, but also confident some self-rooted clones of desirable cultivars can be just as hardy. I also predict that a late frost(after leafing out) would also prove lethal to above-ground stems of wild-type rootstock, and that the rootstock will have to regenerate from suckers.
a spinosa-type rootstock that is hardy to zone 5 is awesome if one is handy with grafting. While hardiness to zone 5 is desirable, it can also be a huge headache if the rootstock begins to assume a feral existence. A considerable amount of dieback will induce suckering, and can be a nuisance, especially in areas with ample rainfall. Australia has regions equivalent to zone 5, but their dept of agriculture prohibits importation of wild-type rootstock, instead using a named cultivar. Jin if i remember it right.
the other issue with growing juju cultivars as grafts is that one could lose one’s stock permanently if a severe dieback ensues. There’s a nursery that lost its entire inventory of r4t3 scions due to a late arctic spell, for the simple reason that all of their r4t3 's are grafted. Was so happy to donate some scions so they could reinstate the cultivar, but also intend to donate self-rooted r4t3’s and other cultivars so they can have additional insurance for their inventories.
a grafted cultivar does not just run the risk of that cultivar getting lost again due to dieback, but grafting in itself is additional cost that involves time/labor/materials. If i give away root cuttings/suckers, the recipients only have to plant them
that’s a great find @Anne ! Read that nursery’s beautiful and intriguing narrative and it sure indicates the trials and tribulations they went through with growing jujus from seed in -20F michigan winters. And they were doing it since the 80’s!
just posted it on my thread so as not to derail the topic of hj and sc
All has been well. I’m excited about all my pear trees I have so many of them and they are so much easier. So sick of disappointment with weather trying to grow plums and peaches etc. Hope you doing good!!!
I just saw your post from Mar 7 about loosing your jujubes. You have some of the worst luck with fruit and fruit trees!!! I’m sorry to hear about this. Amazing that as close as we are to each other, you lost your trees and I didn’t. But I certainly know the freeze you speak of- it was on Mothersday I think. It did kill all my new growth and blooms and I got very little jujube fruit last year. In fact, my trees never filled out fully the whole year. But they survived and this year seem fine. Sorry for your loss.
Lots of fruit over my way this year…come over and I’ll share. You know the only thing better than growing fresh fruit to eat is having a friend who grows fresh fruit (and shares)! ha.
