This is much better than that other forum. It was a link on GW that led me here. For all I know that link is gone. I quit GW. I also quit F4F although different reasons. It’s good to have a place to discuss growing fruits and this is the best.
Tony I’m sure it was your post on GW that led me here even though not aimed at me. Thank you.
Daniel
You are absolutely right about them making any rules they want over at houzz. But to delete a referral to another site goes too far.
This is an interesting thread. I smile a little when folks think they have free speech options on forums run or owned by others. I have this conversation every once in a while on a few of my sewing and machine embroidery chat lists I run (with well over 5,000 members, each). I let folks know right up front there is no “free speech” on my lists. If they want that, I have a soap box I can lend them and they can take it to their local street corner 
In fact, we have a set of rules with which we expect our list members to follow. All new list members get the rules sent to them automatically. They’re on the home page, and they’re sent every month And in our Files. If they don’t choose to follow my few simple rules, their memberships are moderated and any post that doesn’t fit within our list rules is rejected. If they continue to behave badly (like spoilt children who think they have some sort of inalienable right to do what they want to do on my list), I remove them and ban them. Not a lot of rules, but a few very basic ones. The Golden Rule, first. No flaming. Stay on topic within reason. No advertising or selling.
So, I can see why Houzz would pull comments about other forums - they would prefer not to advertise those other forums. Get that. GW did this prior to Houzz taking over, this is nothing new. They would systematically pull comments or threads when we used to mention the Citrus Growers Forum. As well as ALL Garden Watchdog mentions. In fact, they have a filter block for Garden Watchdog’s link - you can’t even post it on GW/Houzz. Now, does this lessen the trust factor? Maybe, or not. It is what it is. What I tell MY list members is pretty simple (yes, I know I sound like a mom and a nurse of 30 years that doesn’t take any funny business): If you don’t like how I run my chat list, you are welcome to start your own. See how easy it is to manage an extremely active list of 5,000 people and make it worthwhile, valuable, interesting, informative, educational and stimulating. Thousands and thousands of hours of time spent by myself and my moderators to keep the list attractive and worthwhile. And we do it for free. Can you imagine if profit were involved? I’d be a lot stricter because there would be more at stake.
So, guess my feeling is - if you don’t like it, start your own list or go somewhere else. We’ll see how Houzz fares. I stay on and chat on both lists, this one which I like very much, and Houzz. I feel that GW/Houzz has been fair. My only criticism of Houzz is the fact they buried GW, and it is essentially impossible to find GW unless you really get busy clicking around. That is a shame. I think GW deserves top billing with a clear and visible link on Houzz’ home page. That is a huge, huge miss on their part.
The soap box is an ineffective way to convey thoughts and ideas these days - the internet is the modern printing press. I fully intend to obey the rules here. My free speech includes non-threatening talk, ideas, fruit growing forum related pictures, concepts, illumination, and news. I appreciate the hands-off approach to forum moderation. This forum is filled with intelligent users who moderate themselves well before any intervention would be considered.
Forums are free to make whatever policy they want concerning censorship, and then we can vote with our feet. I was once censored on Dave’s Garden, basically a friend of an admin there didn’t like how I was contradicting what they said so they got their admin friend to delete my post. I voted with my feet and never came back. So you can probably guess where I stand Re: censorship 
There are cases where it is needed, but it is very easy to abuse if you are not careful. Houzz may have had to start doing something to keep their readers, but the problem is it creates a slippery slope, first it was plugs for competitors and next its heated threads on squirrels, whats the third thing?
Scott
I’m a moderator on a forum that was created when a predecessor forum went rogue over political animus. Our only “rules” ban political and religious discussion:
" Very little limit to the discussion as long as it is kept
civil.
Absolutely no political and religious discussion. Expect a lot of discussions about intrinsic value. Discussions about investment philosophy and financial planning are most welcome."
This works pretty well for us over there, and there is very little work for the moderators. I’ve stepped in once or twice, as have others, but mostly we just live and let live.
I like the idea that this group will behave similarly and I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t work out that way!
The Internet is a big place, there’s plenty of room for more gardening sites. The more the merrier, actually. That said, driving traffic from one site to another is considered to be very bad manners. Kind of a cheesy move to be honest. It’s akin to showing up at a party and announcing that there’s a better party down the street. Likewise, talking down other sites is kind of a cheese wad move too.
I throw in with Patty S. on running things with authority. I ran a very popular aquarium hobbyist site for about six years, a few years back, which in turn spun off a multitude of other sites. It was a phpbb board and if there was a feature that was needed by our members and it wasn’t available, I would code it myself. We had four admins and 8-12 moderators at any given time, all volunteer. I will always come down in support of the host – having been a host. I know what it takes.
I take your point, MrClint. Sort of along the lines of dancing with the one who brought you to the party.
In this case though, the party (i.e. GW) changed on us, and it ain’t what it usta be. In that circumstance it seems to me reasonable to give people a little time to talk things over and maybe make new plans.
One of the grand virtues of the internet is the buffet quality of it. You can sample here and there and try this sauce and that garnish, mix and match as it were, and draw people of different interests and disciplines together even as they are scattered. Different sites and forums should be willing to both compete and share in such fashion.
It’s a whole new world and I think it’s going to demand some new (and shifting) protocols. For my part I’m open to discussion on it.
Mark, I agree political issues can go south real fast these days. I have a hard enough time keeping civil with close relatives in the same room when the topic turns to politics.
This forum has some built-in features that will auto-moderate flagged posts, so to some degree we are all moderators here. We’ll see how it works
Scott
Scott. it’s all going to be more than you signed up for, trust me. I don’t say that to chase you off. Keep it fun, please disallow any negative talk about Houzz.
We’ll make it work, Scott!
I’ve learned from working with the public that you ought never discuss politics, sex, or religion.The bugaboo I have to watch out for myself is a tendency to be oversensitive to imagined slights or condenscensions, and anybody can become prickly over whatever it is that pushes their button., But it seems that everybody gets caught up in political and religious discussion, and as for the other, well, that is just asking for trouble!! Some things just have a way of spiralling out of control, ay?
Well, I agree with you,Scott. Which is why I have, like, 4 rules. And have for about 20 years, now. I think the “slippery slope” is a conscious decision. I choose every day I run my forums, not to slip down that slope. And, I am the one ultimately that makes the decisions for my chat lists, but with the input of my wonderful, thoughtful, experienced moderators. But, we have to have some degree of decorum and order on our lists. Plus, at risk of making a completely non-pc comment, the vast majority of my members are women, and I think their can be some different list dynamics with a forum or chat list made up mostly of women. And, our particular hobby has a few “hot buttons” that can lead to really non-productive rants, so just about any chat list or forum on our subject matter (sewing, machine embroidery, quilting) follows these types of rules to keep lists on the topic and productive, rather than running into the weeds about something that ends up being rather destructive and bordering on slanderous - this again, is a common thread that runs through our marketplace, and nearly all list owners/moderators in this subject matter have had to deal with this. Our forum topic I think has a different dynamic, and can be managed differently. And I would venture to say the majority of this forum’s members are gentlemen. Not that men can’t create some colorful posts, but again, different dynamic.
It reminds me of a conversation my husband had with me years ago, regarding our 3 daughters who were all pre-teens/teens. There had been quite the row, and he finally opted to resolve it by going down to the barn (thus, leaving the resolution of said row to the other parent.) Later that night, after we everyone had gone to bed, my husband said, “If they were all boys, they’d just slug it out, and it’d be all over in a few minutes.” Had to laugh at that. May have been a bigger ER bill, but certainly would have resolved a heck of a lot faster without so much emotional angst.
Forgot one of our rules - no politics or religion, either. Mark’s comment sparked my memory. Scott, I think you’re doing an outstanding job, we have many really wonderful list members who have tremendous knowledge and experience. I think you’ve set a very nice tone for your forum, you will do a wonderful job managing the forum no doubt, and I believe the forum members will strive to create a wonderful, open place to exchange ideas and knowledge. I’m very glad to be a part of the forum.
Jesus, xenu, or the Republi-crat party will never sue you. 
What I think might be at play here is that, although we all recognize and appreciate that Scott took the huge initiative and his vision to start this, we are all feeling like birth mothers of this young child.
HECK WE ARE JUST ABOUT A MONTH OLD AND LOOK AT US.
I think that all of us who have joined in this first month feel a kinship of being founders and this feeling might be having a moderating cooperative effect.
WE NEED TO WORK AT KEEPING IT LIKE THIS.
I am not angry at GW. I feel sorry for and about it.
Mike
I agree, Hoosier. Also, its a pretty subtle difference between a mediocre forum and a good one. I think a lot of it is happenstance. I continue to maintain that the Garden web site became what it was because “Jellyman” showed up early and set a good example.
I have seen good forums go way downhill very fast simply because a few posters who were not especially talented came to dominate the site. No ugliness, no flame wars—just not contributing enough of value. I once read an “editorial” from the operator of a “homebrew” site like this one, that “lack of sufficient contribution” was actually a destructive quality, not a neutral quality, and if persistent, cause for banning! I’m not suggesting Scott should do that, but I understand the sentiment.
I guess I should add that my internal editor when I am on this forum tells me to speak from personal, observed experience as much as possible, to label supposition and guesses clearly, to refrain from repeating received wisdom simply because it is received wisdom and to get to the point.
Just like Jellyman.
All of you make some good points and I respect all of you, but I disagree with the direction the sentiment in this thread has taken. GW decided to sell and Houzz bought…for monetary reasons. They quickly added in a lot of advertising that was troublesome…again…for monetary reasons. When Houzz acquired full control they immediately went about changing everything with no regard for the mostly “old skoolers” who were the mainstay of the particular forum. They had no issues with creating inconveniences and hardships for everybody involved…again…ultimately for monetary reasons. I think they miscalculated…or just didn’t care, I’m not sure which. I understand what there looking to accomplish (profit) and that’s ok by me…no shame in that. It’s their site, so of course they have a right to set the rules and paint their Houzz any color they like. They can also live in it when it’s all complete.
What I think is odd…why do any of you care one hoot about them? To Hell with them, I personally hope they crash and burn. The sooner the better.
I agree. It feels good to be in at the start up.
I dunno. The only thing I really objected to was their hard to read (on a mobile device) font, and the inconvenience of the switchover. Its only a website, and stuff like that is plenty enough to get people like me to abandon you.
Realistically, the ability to sell anything to us is about nil. While they have a kitchen renovation site that is probably a relative goldmine, I recognize that the fruit orchard forum was, for practical purposes pro bono. So I’m not going to badmouth them.
I’m here because you guys are here, but its critical to the health of the forum to attract a steady stream of new and casual users, no matter how knowledgeable you guys are. I don’t know how that happens.
Awesome! My wife is a nurse too, over 20 years in the ER, and now director of education for a major hospital. She tells me she trains baby nurses. She also at one time was the nurse manager of an ER, and also nurse manager of an ICU both at St John’s Macomb Hospital. She also sews and uses those big needles, she just made an apron out of an old pair of jeans. We belong to a yacht club and she made a tie out of Crown Royal bags to auction off, being a non-profit we need ways to raise moneys. Speaking of Crown Royal I avoid it, I hate waking up with Crowns disease!
We have 2 kids, in my avatar is my son as a matter of fact. I’m the good looking one 
She was a strict mother, and a little different. Once my son cut himself pretty badly and she said “Don’t you drip that blood on the carpet!”
Man do I have the stories from the ER!
The sewing runs in my wife’s family. Her mother is a quilter and has won numerous competitions. Some of her work is in museums even. Here is an example. (My father-in-law makes the quilt holders too) We have about 100 of these! My wife changes them up from time to time. Her father also makes quilt holders for storage. Each hold numerous quilts, folded once. It’s like a tiered rack, pretty cool.
