How difficult/easy to order scion wood from USA to Canada?

General Fruit Growing
#1

Hi everyone;

In a near future I would like to order persimmon scion wood to graft onto my American persimmon rootstocks that have survived (up to now) two consecutive harsh Canadian winters. First I will try to locate a Canadian provider since I need very cold hardy scion wood like Mohler and Meader (any other very hardy persimmon varieties I should also consider?) but could be obliged to seek USA providers if unable to contact local sources.

I know shipping of live plant material is forbidden from some state to state but what is the situation from USA to Canada? Complicated? U.S.A provider would be In need of providing sanitary permits in order for scion purchased in USA to enter Canada?

Thanks in advance for answers!

Marc

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#2

I’m sure it would vary by state because of different risk levels, but in general I believe an inspector would need to visit the nursery. I looked into it a couple years back (not for Canada, but still for shipping out of country) and I was put off by the combination of expense for the inspector visit and certificate as well as the requirement that the scion material be treated with certain types of pesticides before sending.

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#3

You could ask Cliff England at Englands Orchards. He would have most any variety and know the answer to your inquiry
Dennis
Kent wa

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#4

Thanks for the reply, Sir.

#5

Thanks for the reply, Sir.

This named person you mentioned ships internationaly but asks almost Can$ 55.00 for 450g envelope (1 pound) of “dead wood”. This is quite expensive…

Shipping information:

Domestic International
Padded Envelope $10.95 $40.95
Small BOX
approx. 1 lb $10.95 $41.75
Medium BOX
approx. 15 lb $17.55 $88.95
Large BOX
approx. 25-30 lb $22.95 $116.95
#6

Yes it is but at least you know now! There must be other Canadian scion sources.

#7

I’ll try to find one or two providers within Canada, of course but persimmons are not well known in Canada. Probably.few people are growing them since the are not native to Canada as it is in the USA. Maybe in the Niagara Peninsula were hardiness zones are the highest Marc

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#8

$55 dollars is a bargain in my opinion. That may be just the shipping not including the inspection and certificate cost though.

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#9

Definitely! Fruitwood Nursery has persimmon scions and offers international shipping, but this is their international shipping policy:

International Shipping

$15.00 base fee, plus 30% of the order subtotal. On top of this all international orders need to have a phytosanitary inspection and certificate, which costs $70.00. This will be automatically charged at checkout and is the same for any size order.

For all international orders please contact us in advance via email so we can make sure the plant materials you want are allowed into the country you are in. Also some countries also require an import permit which potentially could be hard to get.

Note: Our International shipping fee may not charge enough for Priority shipping to all areas. We will send you a supplemental invoice for such orders if you desire this upgraded shipping, which is recommended. The charge will always be enough for First Class shipping, but for going long distances Priority is highly recommended.

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#10

Since I did not see any supplement fee for phytosanitary inspection on Cliff Englands’ s site i would agree that U.S $ 42 if reasonable!

Marc

#11

Let us know what it ends up costing you and how long the process takes if you do go down this road. I somehow have the feeling it will be neither cheap, nor speedy.

Good luck.

#12

Hi: I will just do that when time comes to order. Thanks! Marc

#13

Go to North American Scion Exchange on FB…its a group.

Its basically designed to do what you want.

“This is a place where people in the US and Canada can exchange scion wood, root stocks, fruit trees, and other plants”

I asked the same question in reverse on this group and my post was removed and i was sent a message by a moderator. Also a PM from a member here telling me that i was wrong to do so. So this group is no bueno for what you want… the FB group is exactly what you want.

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#14

Hi Kris;

I couldn’t dream of receiving such a good answer/,reply until now… Thanks a Lot!

P.S. Not all Humans are good with diplomacy and this is why Humanity has suffered so many wars for so many millions of years and unfortunately: plus ça change, plus c’est pareil…

Marc

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#15

It’s been mentioned several times before that going around import laws of countries puts food crops and farmers at risk. The cost of imported insect pests and diseases is enormous.

Citrus canker was eradicated twice from the U.S. costing taxpayers millions and destroying the livelihood of many farmers, only to be introduced again. The third eradication attempt, again cost millions, and livelihoods, but was finally deemed unfeasible by the USDA in 2006. Now citrus farmers just live with the losses from citrus canker. The only means of introduction was illegally importing scionwood, or illegally bringing in fruit from an infected country.

Likewise when plum pox was introduced to the U.S. in PA and spread to NY, and MI. It took 20 years and the destruction of millions of trees of stone fruit, and of course millions of dollars to eradicate the disease.

It was thought by experts in the field that plum pox entered the U.S. from illegally imported infected plant materials.

Canada attempted to eradicate plum pox, but was unsuccessful. Their farmers are forced to live with it, and suffer the losses associated with it.

These are just a couple examples. There are multitudes of similar examples. It always ends up with farmers suffering large economic losses, higher pesticide usage, and higher costs to consumers.

In the historical past there were no rules importing plants (or animals for that matter) but there are also countless examples that this policy moved destructive insect pests and destructive diseases, as well as invasive plants, and animals, which destroyed native habitats.

Phytosanitary from state departments of agriculture are fairly meaningless. The inspections are merely visible inspections, detecting plants showing obvious symptoms, if that. I once received a peach tree with a visible crown gall. It had a state dept. of ag. phytosanitary certificate on the box.

Using legal channels to import plant materials from other countries is the only way to ensure the plant materials are free from potentially devastating diseases. Yes, it’s more expensive than just sending scionwood through the mail. And it’s much more time consuming, but it’s the law for good reason.

Here is a recent example where a farmer is fighting for compensation due to a citrus greening eradication program in Florida.

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#16

Here is the purpose statement for NAFEX

Purpose

To aid and encourage fruit exploration in its broadest context.

North America is defined by NAFEX

Content should be focused on fruit growing in North America (United States, Canada and Mexico). When sharing related content from another person, group or page proper credit should be given in the post.

If you live in North America and have plants, seed or scion wood to sell, you can indicate you have those items available and invite people to direct message you. You can also share relevant content from your fruit growing business page.

A recent discussion on NAFEX was that black Nanking cherry is only available in Canada. So folks on there are getting it… and it looks like it has made it to this forum.

This is how we get things alot of the time… but nobody cares where it comes from as long as they can get it and grow it.

#17

Yes, I understand that people have that point of view. But the argument you are making is effectively, some people, or even groups do it, so it’s OK. To which I would reply, what our mothers used to tell us, “If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?” This line of argument is known as the ad populum fallacy (appeal to popularity).

I used to be a member of Nafex when they had an active discussion board (more than a decade ago). There were plenty of members who imported plant materials through APHIS, legally. There were plenty who recommended others do the same. It was from Nafex that I first learned about APHIS.

I don’t know how Canada’s plant inspection service works, but APHIS works with both amateurs and professionals to safely and legally import plant materials in the U.S.

I recognize I’m not going to change your mind, but the issue is very real to me. If our orchard got plum pox and were forced to destroy all the stone fruit trees, we would quit growing peaches and cherries, and maybe try to grow just apples for tree fruit. It would take many years to turn everything over and start producing tree fruit again. Government programs typically reimburse for the cost of the trees, but not all the lost revenue, which is where most of the cost occurs.

I remember talking with a large nursery owner over a decade ago, before plum pox was eradicated in the U.S. They were forced to destroy all their nursery stock and lease property at another location to try to stay in business, because their original nursery was located in the quarantine area. These are real issues which affect real people, not just some feel good moral grandstanding on my part.

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#18

I am not making an argument…at least that is not my intention.

Im just saying that alot of the things that we as a group talk about on here were obtained by fruit hunters.

The most recent for example is the Black Nanking…which is already in the US. It will eventually be owned by someone on here from the USA and likely talked about on here and other places.

Im just saying that some of the cultivars that some of us grow and talk about on here…would not be possible if not for a fruit hunter of some sort…

I recently saw a youtube video of a very very popular guy that opened mail from a foreign country and his fig cuttings were wrapped in aluminum foil…which you can imagine make it much easier to bypass some robots or instruments.

Many many thousands of people will want that fig… and it will make it to this board if its not already here.

People will be happy.

I think thats how alot of things we grow works… i know so for some things.

If you guys want to get together and ban all these cultivars that is up to you… but people will still grow them and want them and enjoy them even with censure.

I like the story of the Peach… and their journey to the Native Americans.

The journey of the peach into the hands of Navajo and Puebloan people of the Southwest spanned continents and centuries. It led through times of great adversity. The story began in Zhejiang Province, China. That is where the peach originated and has been cultivated by Chinese people for thousands of years. The fruits were prized. About 2,000 years ago, silk traders and Greeks took them into Persia, and from there into Greece, Italy, and other temperate areas of Europe. Peaches made the transatlantic voyage to the New World in the 16th century with Portuguese and Spanish explorers. Conquistadors, Jesuit and Franciscan missionaries, and Indigenous people took them north from Mexico.

Modern thinking would have them stay in China and nobody else would be allowed to grow them or eat them i dont think.

Folks from the old days traded and folks grew things to eat and were happy to do so.

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#19

Incorrect. Modern thinking would get peaches here safely. The USDA collects plant material from around the world to support US agriculture. Also, when peaches first came here there were no preexisting peaches to get infected by new peach diseases so the comparison you’ve made isn’t useful to the conversation.

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#20

I agree that they do that.

There is also many many many US citizens that collect plant material from around the world to support their own agriculture and hobby and trade. I am one of them and belong to many many groups of tens of thousands of us… i have never seen anyone in any of our groups that did not enjoy growing things.

This movie is streaming on Amazon, Apple etc and is not illegal…and kind of what got me started. That and my passion of growing fruit.

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