I didn’t create your victim mentality. You did. You turned the conversation from living off the land into a discussion of how bad it is to eat beef. Eat whatever you choose, it is your body and your choice what you put in your mouth. Whatever you eat, you are not a victim in this conversation.
There were fish, ducks, chickens, and pigs in the video which all had to be fed. There are two purposes in keeping ducks, they eat a literal ton of insects, and she either sells or eats the ducks. There are two purposes in keeping fish, they recycle nutrients from the ducks and turn them into fish, and she either sells or eats the fish. There are two reasons for having chickens, they produce eggs which she eats or sells and she either eats or sells the chickens. There is only one reason for keeping pigs, and that is to eat them or sell them to be eaten. She relies on subsistence agriculture to stay alive. Meat is part of her survival. Did you notice the shoes she was wearing?
In 5 years you have only given 6 to others posts. So obviously you dont value what others have to contribute.
On top of that you feel the need to label me with a victim mentality?
Earlier you labeled me as a Vegan. If i were that name do i not belong in a Fruit Growers forum?
To be honest, posting of youtube videos is against the rules anyways… and we all break them…even moderators. Which makes the whole discussion a moot point.
There are no topics or categories as far as i can understand the intention of this group with any relation to meat. Which by the rules officially makes any discussion thereof Off Topic.
So i apologize to the group. I will no longer discuss meat as it is off topic.
If others decide to talk about meat i will consider their posts to be off topic as well.
Disregarding all else, I wanna jump in for a second regarding the point of meat being on or off-topic. I argue that it be considered on-topic.
True that this is a gardening forum (and one whose title emphasizes fruit), and that such endeavors are primarily plant-focused. But lots of people keep animals in their garden, explicitly as part of the garden, and as a facet of its labors. I’m not sure how true this is in the States, but here in Latin America (and, I’ve heard, in many places of the world), chickens are a very common component of many rural gardens, and are seldom considered on separate terms from the garden’s workload. Some people have goats in their garden. Cattle, perhaps, may not be seen as part of a garden under most circumstances, but the animals that are (chickens, guineafow, goats, etc.) are harvested for their meat as part of the garden’s harvest.
This is what I have on short notice, off the top of my head, but my argument is in favor of considering animals (and their meat) on topic, as being a relevant facet of gardening. As precedent, we do have a thread on Cackle Fruit (chickens) on the forum.
With the turns this thread has been taking, I’d like it if the site mods would make an official statement on the relevance (or at least permissibility) of animals and their meat as a topic on this site, regardless of whether or not they get their own category. Also some guidelines regarding the more controversial aspects of its discussion.
Nah. You said our society is fat because we eat meat, I pointed out an entire society that is not fat that eat meat. You make it sound like I used a single individual as an example.
The overweight pandemic in the US got started when we began demonizing fat and everything got laden with plant-based sugars.
As far as i can tell its ok to talk about religion and taxation and the economy. Also its ok to talk about energy and depending on your viewpoint you can dabble in climate change.
So i think if the moderator or owner of the board eats meat then of course it will be ok to talk about meat.
I have no issue with what people do at all. I have said before that i am very good friends with carnivores… and i encourage hunting on my land. With that being said i come to this forum to learn about growing fruit and gardening.
I thought that feeding my birds was a good thing… it makes me happy and the birds seem happy. However it turned out that some folks took offense and it was possibly the reason for bird flu… or the folks that hate birds because they eat their fruits. Regardless… there is no consensus that feeding of birds is a good thing or bad thing…its mixed.
So no matter what we talk about there is a variation and some room for other ways of thinking.
Growing Fruit the forum is a small niche… this forum doesnt have many members (4800) and most of those members do not contribute… i guess i just think for such a small community the focus would be on Growing Fruit and Gardening.
I have been a member of Hobby Fruit Growers for a few years…it has 80000 members and i have never seen any discussions about slaughter or carnivores… they just talk about growing fruit and gardening. Not even NAFEX talks about it or has discussions.
Not many folks on here talk about alcoholism but i am fairly sure that this forum has alcoholics in the mix. Alcohol is made from things that grow. So technically it is on topic.
And I’m sure these topics all have their guidelines regarding how they’re discussed. I think that’s a relevant course of action for any controversial topic.
I think talking about it ex-nihilo might be off-topic. If it were talked about from the perspective of someone who grew the crops that made the alcohol that contributed to his alcoholism… that might be on-topic.
There is not one scientific “controlled study” that actually proves that eating meat is bad for you.
There is a HUGE BIAS against meat in our health system and people with that HUGE BIAS that have done epidemiology/obsoverational type studies that are terribly inaccurate and highly flawed if bias is involved… that say all this bad stuff about meat. Thay mislead millions of people to believe the lie… and boy do they.
There are scientific “controlled” studies that prove that eating a meat heavy diet caused no harm to humans.
If you really want to know the truth… do your own study. There is a little work to it but I did it. I was fat sick and nearly dead… and now i am thin muscular and very healthy… feel better in my 60s than i did in my 40s. Got off all rx meds too.
The old food pyramid was very flawed. Not sure about the new one, but I don’t listen to any food gurus either. I remember Dr Weil, another Harvard idiot, he went on and on about how fats are bad for you, he did a complete turnaround lately.
When an effort is made to find the causal link for obesity, it comes straight back to sugar. Starch is just sugar molecules chained together. When we digest starch, it turns back into sugar. But the overarching problem with obese America is from eating too much sugar.
I have found this discussion quite interesting. I personally think the scientific data is quite clear that eating a diet similar to the Mediterranean Diet has been shown to be healthier. I would be interested to know how you @TNHunter came to the conclusion that their is a “HUGE BIAS” in our health system against meat? I do agree that highly processed high carb foods are a major culprit in the obesity crisis we find ourselves in. But I also think that mixing high fat diets with high carb diets is a recipe for disaster. Just check out what most fast food chains are selling to see what sells well.
@clarkinks has started threads on living off the grid and now living off the land.
Personally my family has done both and i have lived through both. Mostly due to poverty and the poor economy of my youth. Living in rural WV off the land is different than living in a jungle or a frigid climate. I have no doubt about that. Im sure that jungle people live off of fruit and plants and fish and whatever creatures they can kill, and cold weather folks live off of game and fish and trade for vegetables. So there is no one end all be all formula for living off the land i dont think… and living is different than surviving.
If i didnt have the education and medical background that i have, i would no doubt be totally on board with my carnivore friend’s thinking. Its in my upbringing to hunt and fish. I live in a farming community and i have raised chickens and ducks… ate the meat and eggs from both. I consider myself to be an excellent fisherman and have traveled half the world on fishing adventures. Hunting is easy on my land. My friend is filling his freezers with my deer now. My dogs eat all of the carcasses and bones and life is good for him and them.
However after all is said and done… i am personally choosing to avoid red meat and processed meats. I have been asked a few times on this forum to ‘try it’. Personally i have the ability to read the National Institute of Health’s findings that red meat causes cancer and heart disease. I can also type the words cancer, heart disease and red meat… in a search engine of my choice and see the same reports. I can see those results from Harvard Medical School or whatever report by medical professionals that i choose. I can only rely on modern science and medicine and my own understanding. Personally i do not want to battle cancer nor do i want to battle heart disease. Again thats my choice and stance.
I do understand that you can come to an understanding that everything that i just said is false. I was once on Keto myself and without a doubt i could read til infinity… that meat was the cure for everything. I believed it myself when i was diagnosed with Asthma.
Even with warning labels on cigarettes that they will kill you…people still smoke. There are warning labels on sugar products as well…people still consume them. It took many many many years for that to come to fruition.
Perhaps someday something that i ate or drank my whole life will have a warning label on it. Perhaps meat will have a warning label on it someday? Who knows.
So anyways after thinking about it… i was wrong in posting my beliefs and understandings. I think we as humans all need to experiment and deal with the consequences on our own. Even when my mother told me not to touch the hot stove… i had to touch it when she wasnt looking. I had to figure it out myself.
@TNHunter i apologize brother. I relate to you in so many ways and i value all of your posts. I wish you well and best of health… even if we are on opposite paths of meat we are on the same path of fruits and vegetables and shrooms and 'sang and ramps i think.
I think the weight issue is nothing but a big red herring. In the end, in what form you get your caloric intake is mostly irrelevant (meat, carbs sugars, etc) . It’s elementary school math really, if you burn as many calories (or more) than your intake a healthy person should not gain weight.
It is the modern sedentary lifestyle that is one of the biggest factors leading to weight gain in first world countries today. Many kids today do nothing but play video games day and night and rarely get of the couch. I think in those types of individuals how the calories are accumulated is of little matter, if they are not burning any of it off.
Thats not completely true but your mostly right. The more muscle you have the more calories you burn. A person who is active typically has more muscles though meaning your logic is sound. Metabolism also plays a factor. The reason i bring up muscle and metabolism is because 2 people might eat the same thing one stores fat the other doesn’t. The person who never stores fat is obviously healthier in warm climates. In colder climates the people who store fat will outlive the high metabolism people. All that said if someone drops to 500 calories a day they will lose weight quickly. The chances of them crashing from that diet and gaining it back are very high.
Not really. That would be the case if food existed in a vacuum meaning if you do not take into consideration many factors that come into play.
Lots of foods have hormones that directly affect body signaling, and indirect chemicals that have a similar effect. Metabolizing sugars is a whole different ball game than fats, and we are so bad at digesting meat protein that it bodies burn about 20% of the consumed calories metabolizing it.
Heck one of the changes I made while literally halving my triglycerides was to switch from using canola/corn oil to using lard. I limit my fat intake but vegetable oils promote inflammation.
Highly recommend this series of videos. Im learning things about warmer climates and things applicable in my own climate. Some parts are disgusting. As an example, some of these videos they have no problem eating rats. Some things like their knowledge of fruit and vegetables is extensive. There are several of these individuals living on the land.
to others posts. So obviously you dont value what others have to contribute.
