I recently acquired some D. Virginiana seeds that I have been stratifying for the past couple of months. If I grow them out this year, will they be large enough to graft onto next year?
Once upon a time, I read an article on “what to say when you don’t know.” The article claimed that any question could be answered with…
“It all depends.”
“You can’t generalize.”
“Things are different in the South.”
With that said, in Arkansas (zone 7), if I can start DV seeds early in the year, the best of the bunch will be around 2’ tall and a good 1/4" across before dormancy hits (usually mid to late November). Those will be ready for grafting by the following May.
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I successfully grafted several 1 year old seedlings grown from seed. I fertilize with chicken manure to keep them growing rapidly. Many will be 1/4 inch diameter or more by the time they go dormant for winter.
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A few years back I planted 3 wild southern persimmon seeds in a 16 inch wide x 10 inch deep planter pot. I ate the persimmon then planted the seeds in that pot… mid October.
I left that pot out in the edge of my woods all winter… it was mulched with some pine bark mulch and maple leaves…
The next spring…
All 3 seeds germinated.
I removed the one in the center and let the other 2 grow.
By the end of the first growing season they looked like this… one was 42 inch… the other 36 inch.
I planted them out in my orchard during a warm spell in January… then grafted Kasandra to the larger one and Nakitas Gift to the smaller one in April.
Both were successful and are getting to be nice sized trees now… 12 ft, nice scaffold branches developing.
PS… persimmons grow extra well here with my southern middle TN heat.
In a cooler climate others dont get near that size with one season growth.
Good Luck.
TNHunter
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Hi, I’m located in Central Mass, zone 6A. I planted persimmons seeds communally in an air prune box for the first time last year. Most of the trees grew 6-8" in height and between 0.080" - 0.125" in diameter near the base. I didn’t provide the trees with the best growing conditions. I’d approximate 5-6 hours of afternoon sun and used little fertilizer. Most seeds germinated around the first week of June for me.
Here are some trees that I removed from the box in beginning of November.
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This is one seasons growth on a wild persimmon root shoot out in my field.
I have 50-75 or so of these that get bushhogged down in the fall… but then in the spring they pop up and grow again… making 4 to 5 ft and 1/2 inch diameter in one season.
I have grafted several americans and hybrids to these. They push growth like crazy once grafted.
TNHunter
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I’ve been wondering this for awhile, isn’t it possible to chip or bud a seedling rootstock sooner than it would be to graft the same seedling? I thought I saw this in an article once.
I start fruit tree seeds for fun indoors over winter to plant out in spring. They usually start turning woody near the bottom after 1.5 months or so of decent growth, Im pretty sure if they get a good pot size and 2-3 months of growth under lights they would be thick enough to bud graft something by spring.
But physiologically not sure if theres anything that would prevent plants this young from being grafted. If you had greenwood, you could maybe also graft like they do vegetables at similar diameters, likely very difficult though.
Anyway, I’ll probably try this on something vigorous like peach in April or so. I just bought my first ever persimmons, 25 bundle of DV from the state nursery which Im wondering if a couple would be large enough to attempt budding. I dont have any persimmon scionwood though and not sure if its worth wasting some trying.
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@svr68 … last spring I bought a Cardinal persimmon from OGW.
It was a tiny thing…
Think that is a chip/bud graft ?
It was tiny and grew only about 10 inches last year. It ended up 17 inches tall after first season growth.
Not impressed. Hope it kicks in and grows well this year.
TNHunter
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Do you know which cultivars or at least species?
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I also wonder if you can graft them at seedling stage like industry growers do when grafting watermelons onto Squash (Or other Cucurbitacea).
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I’ve grafted pear seedlings when it was only a month after they sprouted and it was successful, but then I proceeded to forget about them and not water so they all died, that was 8 years ago when I was 12, so just a dumb little kid.
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Thank you all for the answers!
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Man I’ve had way slower results than y’all. My seedlings are only 6” tall in two years. I had them in too small pots for sure, moved them to tree pots from reading this thread. If they don’t size up this season I’ll toss them and start again. I also kept them rather shaded so I’ll move them to a sunny location.
What size pot were you using?
Varying sizes, gallon at the biggest and those did by far the best. Moved them all into deep tree pots 2 days ago tho. I also neglected them mostly
When you’re growing rootstocks from seed they’re slower than coming out of a stoolbed, and if you’re thinking about budding it’s normal to use two year old stocks. Most of my seedlings rootstocks start in a bed with close spacing, and at the end of the first year I’ll grade them and some will be large enough to bench graft the next spring. The rest get lined out with more room and they’ll get large enough to bud the next fall. In my experience it’s much easier to bud the larger stocks and get a good take. From what I’ve read in old horticultural publications and research bulletins, back in the day when most rootstocks were seedlings this was common practice to just give some material a couple of years to size up. I’m talking about plum, apple and pear but should apply to persimmon. Also our growing season is short, if you don’t have snow on the ground right now (mid january looking at 3ft of snow out the window in southern Mb) then you may be able to get some large seedlings in one year.
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