there are much more qualified people to answer you muscadine question than myself… i’m relatively new to them to be honest and haven’t tried many different types. i just moved to the south. But i do know there’s a lot of different varieties and to me they are very tasty with lots of flavor. and disease free! i personally don’t want to deal with spraying etc. Great for the backyard grower in the south.
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I also like the taste of table grapes but the ones I have tried have struggled like some of the others have mentioned. Muscadines in my opinion are far more complex in taste and not everyone likes them. My overall favorite is Black Beauty. BB and Lane (self fertile) would make a good combination.
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I wouldn’t get too hung up on exact numbers, except to make it uniform once you decide–but basically fruiting wire is somewhere around waist height. You’ll be bending over to tie, thin, pick, so make it somewhat comfortable. Some people argue lower is better for heat retention, other like higher for comfort and ease of tractor implements/weeding. As for your catch wires (most VSP setups use two), decide on wooden or metal posts first, then take the distance between the fruiting wire and the top of the post. That’ll probably be the highest point for the bottom wire. Top wire will end up as close to the top of the post as the clip or notch will allow. But again, the catch wires will follow the growth of the vine so if you chose wooden posts, put something like four clips at equal distance between fruiting wire and top of post.
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Thanks so much.I’ve learned a lot so far. I have some follow up questions if you don’t mind.
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Why do we need the catch wire to be movable? I’m assuming that’s what you mean by having clips between the fruiting wire and catch wire, so that you can move it higher as the shoots grow taller. However, once they grab onto the catch wire at the lowest level, wouldn’t it be difficult to move the catch wire to the next clip up, as you would have to untangle all of the tendril and then re-tangle them on once you move the catch wire one notch up? Or am I misunderstanding something?
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Is there a way to tell if my variety is an “upright growing” variety? This is something I frequently read about, so I was wondering if I should really take the time to find out.
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For the VSP trellis system, I come across a so-called idea of a “fruiting zone”. I understand this to mean that the grapes grow in a row close to the canes horizontally. My confusion is why doesn’t fruit form higher up the shoots? Is this a characteristic of grapevines or is this something we do to the tree?
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It’s kind of a delicate dance. You want to catch the shoot before it flops out but once you have the wire in its first slot the tendrils can grab ahold. Ideally you time it so you’re breaking a minimum of tendrils when you move to the next slot–but ultimately I’ll break tendrils if I need to, they’re more of a redundancy to the wires in my view. No detangling, although I once had an intern detangle bindweed off trunks so I could safely herbicide them…
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Generally American (Labrusca) and Native (Riparia/Rotundifolia/etc.) are procumbent/flopping while European (vinifera) are upright. Certainly there are exceptions and degrees–Syrah and Pinot noir spread diagonally while Riesling is almost perfectly upright. Hybrids are somewhere inbetween. So if you can find info about a grapes parentage you may be able to guess at growth habit.
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Grapes generally form 2-3 clusters per shoot and they’re almost always from nodes 2-5–meaning the clusters are opposite the second through fifth full sized leaf (there are often basal leaves close to the start of the shoot that are smaller). In other words the grapes stay close to the bottom of the shoot. Gets a little more complicated in a spur system but sticks to the same principles. One exception is “Christmas clusters” that will form off of laterals higher on the shoot. Think of laterals as side shoots off the main shoot. These clusters almost never ripen in time and are better off being dropped.
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Would one be able to tell visually? Below I have some photos - one is in a pot (in it’s first year) and one is in the ground and is in it’s second year. For the potted one I have taken photos from the top looking straight down.
So, labrusca types tend to have white/cream undersides that seem hairy or felt-like. They also produce tendrils opposite leaves along the entire stem (vinifera only tends to produce 2 or 3 sets of tendrils on an average shoot). So your potted plant looks to have a good amount of labrusca to it. The in-ground vine is less clear. It has lots of tendrils but the underside of the leaves look more vinifera-like, so maybe it’s a hybrid. Ripe fruit would be a helpful puzzle piece.
Sorry I forgot to clarify that both are the same variety. I do have some fruit ripening right now on the in-ground one. I’ll go grab some photos of it and be right back. Also, it has seed from when I tasted one the other day. My mother defoliated the potted one a little bit because she cooks stuffed grape leaves sometimes.
Just checked - the in-ground one had tendrils opposte every leaf. The grapes are tiny - don’t know if that’s because it’s just 2 years old. It also has a seed. Don’t know if this is much help:
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Beautiful photo! (Grapes aren’t bad, either!)
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Thanks! It only grew two clusters (this is it’s second year). Birds got half of them, which is a good lesson for next year when it produces a full crop. I’m expecting big things next year. It just needs a trellis badly and some organization.
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Looks somewhat similar to Catawba (though they have med sized grapes), but again I’m only familiar with the major industry varieties for the most part.
Sorry to drag this on for so long. I’m finally going to build this thing. I was wondering if it was possible to use 8ft T-posts as end posts, sticking it 2 feet down into the ground. The metal t posts are cheaper than lumber and last longer.
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i just put mine on 8ft. cattle panels supported by 4 t posts. its pretty sturdy. time will tell if it holds up but i think it will.
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Yeah I’m sure that’d be fine, I’m not sure how long your row is but commercial rows can easily be over 1000 feet long. Putting the end post in at a 45 degree angle is best but for a short row it maybe isn’t critical.
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You mean like an arbor or pergola, with 4 legs and a cattle panel rested on it?
no, just a vertical wall with the vines trained crossing the top. its tied to the heavy t posts with wire. I’m letting the vines come down the sides of the panel as well. i found the design on youtube. took me 15min. to set up. if i needs more support in the future, i can run heavy wire thru the top of the panel attached to 2 more t posts each staked to the ground on each end. i don’t think ill need to though.
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I use t-post for my muscadine trellis. The end post is put in at a slight angle and pulled upward with the trellis wire. After three years they are doing well. My runs are only 20’ each. They are easily installed and should outlast me but his method might not be the best for longer runs.
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Yea I just have one grapevine, for now. So I guess that’s what I’ll go with. By the way do you brace them? And do you re tighten them every year?
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Good luck with your t-post. Muscadines vines loaded with fruit start to get heavy the third year and forward so I don’t know how well they will do with more time but the way my setup is I’m okay if they need repairs but I don’t think they will. I did a simple cross brace with one vine but I don’t know that it was necessary.
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