How to Identify Asimina x piedmontana ( dwarf pawpaw x pawpaw hybrid)

[Francis_Eric]

Photographs of Asimina species. Hand of author present for scale.

(a-b) Asimina parviflora; both photographed at Lynch’s Woods, Newberry County, South Carolina.

(c-d) Asimina 3 piedmontana; © photographed at Johnson Creek (Union County, South Carolina),
(d) photographed at Broad River (Union County, South Carolina).

(e-f) Asimina triloba; (e) photographed at Lynch’s Woods, (f) photographed at Pagett’s Creek (Union County, South Carolina).

Horn2015piedmontana (2).pdf

Vegetative and flowering buds of Asimina plants. (a) vegetative buds, both terminal and lateral (arrow) on
Asimina triloba (photograph taken December 2014 at Lynch’s Woods, Newberry County, South Carolina), (b) vegetative
(terminal) and flowering lateral bud (arrow) of Asimina 3 piedmontana (photo taken March 2008 at Lynch’s Woods,
Newberry County, South Carolina).

[Francis_Eric]

I could write a little more, but not at the moment
I posted because I see some mention of Pawpaw being found not worthy of picking

Yes I also read (on site, and here) How A. parviflora (dwarf pawpaw) is on higher ground (drier)
as Common Pawpaw is near Creek beds.

I think this is good to post quickly as the tree’s are going to flower (did they in the south)

Also Piedmont is a place in South Carolina why this is named piedmontana
There is a Church where 2 of these Species are behind (listed online)
I have it wrote down maybe to visit would be nice to collect Pollen, and maybe back cross to pawpaw, or even grow as a rootstock , but I would not dig out tree’s.

I think Drier places Like the west like Colorado or Kansas
could be a interesting place to see if they grow,
and see how the rootstock does with amended soil.

Although the site (or one of them) also Mentioned them growing in Florida soil Kraust country
which I found out means high calcium soil so I do not think the PH is acidic like pawpaw likes so maybe it would do Okay in Colorado mountainous soil.
(only a assumption I do not know of those soils )

[haldog]

I had no idea there was a naturally occurring triloba x parviflora cross.

Asimina parviflora is very common in my area, while asimina triloba is very rare. Full grown parviflora can look very similar to young triloba if it’s not in bloom or fruiting, and I suspect a lot of the people who claim to have seen triloba in my area are actually looking at parviflora. Parviflora grows in drier areas than triloba but I’ve also seen it in damp areas. Like triloba it grows in the understory and never in full sun. I’ve got some seed germinating from a good tasting parviflora that I’m hoping to grow out.

[Francis_Eric]

Let me correct That mistake I posted
the article says it is a dwarf pawpaw x pawpaw called Piedmontana (pronounced pee’d montana )
I have no idea if the cross the other way is the same name though

so that means Dwarf pawpaw is the Mother (is that correct if dwarf is listed first in the cross )?

Coincidence I keep seeing the area of piedmont of different origins like 10 times lately
(it isn’t internet tracking either) – (I also bought a Italian wine from Piedmont type of wine is Barlo)

The church I speak of is in Alabama Montgomery (Galiee church)
Anyone In Alabama (nice to get some observations or even pollen)

[Francis_Eric]

Haldog there is a wild Florida pawpaw group looking for selections on facebook
I do not use it so know little about it (someone said one tasted like a pina colada )

I Honestly do not remember but for now here is a Florida pawpaw Chapter of native plants FNPS
(Florida Native plant Society) (pawpaw Chapter)
https://en-gb.facebook.com/pg/PawpawChapter/posts/?ref=page_internal

When This grows I’d be interested (also lived in New Orleans Louisiana ,
( but LSU also has selection of regular pawpaw I like different species they interest me.)

[JohannsGarden]

@Francis_Eric

so that means Dwarf pawpaw is the Mother (is that correct if dwarf is listed first in the cross )?

When the mother is known the mother is listed first in the cross, but if both parents are known, but not known which parent is mother and which is father then they are simply listed in alphabetical order.

[Mtncj]

For whatever it is worth, here in the Carolinas, “piedmont” is the geographical term for the region between the mountains and the coastal plains. It’s generally flat, although it is probably obvious to many that it would translate more directly to “foot of the mountains”. What we more locally call the foothills is not recognized geographically as distinct and depends largely of where you live.

[Lucky_P]

F_E,
I grew up in Lee Co, AL - right at the interface of the Piedmont & Coastal Plain.
A.parviflora was common - usually on upland sites - and all I ever saw on the farm I grew up on were in the open, in full sunlight - and fruited heavily, as a result.
A.triloba would be found growing mainly along streams and creeks, and as most were in deep shade under the mature canopy, I almost never saw any with fruit.

I had a graft of an A.parviflora from the AL farm growing here in southern KY for years until an Easter freeze event killed it (and so many other specimens of various species) back to the rootstock. A friend in Flint MI also had grafts of the parviflora growing for a number of years in his orchard.
I have one seedling of the AL parviflora graft planted somewhere on the farm here, and sent another one to Guy Sternberg at Starhill Forest Arboretum in Petersburg IL. Not sure, but I think it’s still alive there.

[Francis_Eric]

Blockquote

@Mtncj

For whatever it is worth, here in the Carolinas, “piedmont” is the geographical term for the region between the mountains and the coastal plains. It’s generally flat, although it is probably obvious to many that it would translate more directly to “foot of the mountains”. What we more locally call the foothills is not recognized geographically as distinct and depends largely of where you live.

Very interesting I saw this about peidmont being in Mississippi didn’t know that
(I drink good red wine, but need to go study these terms better)

Mississippi Mountains

Haldog good you got some good seed growin g out
Lucky__p to bad the tree died , but good you have seeds
I hope to get some of a good tasting type.
(or see what it does out west I have (a) close friend in Colorado )
(but as mentioned did live in New Orleans so would like to collect one for there too.)

I would like to hear more about this species in it’s habitat
How many fruit per Tree (depending on size of tree etc.)?

When do these Flower ?
Important I know Some fruits hybrids where no good,
but around for Novelty until someone thought to backcross them
(I can explain more but going to sleep._)

I may head to that church in Montgomery Alabama to get Asimina x piedmontana (piedmont pawpaw)

not certain if it flowered or even know anything of the place (or airports etc yet though)
I guess if I get a sign,
but if that was the case I should of last week went to someplace with piedmont in the name
kept seeing it like 10 times everywhere,

[Lucky_P]

At some point back in the late 1990s or early 2000s, the folks at KSU had a few interspecific Asimina hybrids in their collection. One, in particular, had especially showy blossoms… seemed like it was A.trilobaXreticulata, maybe?

I’ve got a couple of putative hybrid seedlings that Jerry Lehman bred. A.triloba was the ‘mother’, he hand-pollenated flowers with pollen from A.incarnata and A.obovata, then taped the flowers closed to exclude pollenating insects.
These two look ‘maybe’ a little different from pure A.triloba trees planted a few feet away. The trilobaXobovata has flowered, but not yet matured any fruit. Flowers may have been different from pure triloba… I need to look more closely this spring.
The trilobaXincarnata was severely damaged by a rutting buck, and has had to re-grow, so is probably several years behind the obovota hybrid, with regard to flowering.

[Francis_Eric]

If anyone is wondering the common names
Asimina incarnata Wolly pawpaw (syn. incana )
A. recticulata Netted pawpaw
A. obovata big flower pawpaw

If you make a list on paper a few times pretty easy to memorize all the names there is a pattern in Alphabetical order now if I only knew how to spell normal English.

I am not sure the Mother , but A. obovata (big flower) x recticulata is A. x oborecticulata

(easy to mention it, not easy to search crappy google I should of just looked up my notes
but here it is listed (also see Kris Delaney site or see if I post later )

By the way Off the top of my head I do not know all the hybrids yet or memorized it
haven’t looked up the exact locations since not much information out there
I may have to print some things on them to get a better understanding of each species locations

https://www.ipni.org/a/14662-1

@Lucky_P

At some point back in the late 1990s or early 2000s, the folks at KSU had a few interspecific Asimina hybrids in their collection. One, in particular, had especially showy blossoms… seemed like it was A.trilobaXreticulata, maybe?

I’ve got a couple of putative hybrid seedlings that Jerry Lehman bred. A.triloba was the ‘mother’, he hand-pollenated flowers with pollen from A.incarnata and A.obovata, then taped the flowers closed to exclude pollenating insects.
These two look ‘maybe’ a little different from pure A.triloba trees planted a few feet away. The trilobaXobovata has flowered, but not yet matured any fruit. Flowers may have been different from pure triloba… I need to look more closely this spring.
The trilobaXincarnata was severely damaged by a rutting buck, and has had to re-grow, so is probably several years behind the obovota hybrid, with regard to flowering.

[Francis_Eric]

For Delaney web site I have it now
just clicked a link on the above link
(I remember now google wasn’t even showing results
even though I knew his name, and searched rare species with it…)

The botanical explorer

http://www.botanicalexplorer.com/current.html

BOTX 4 - AUG 2010:
[Article 1 of 5]
ASIMINA MANASOTA (ANNONACEAE), A NEW PAWPAW FROM WEST-CENTRAL FLORIDA, WITH NOTES ON VARIATION AND NATURAL HYBRIDIZATION WITHIN THE GENUS
Kris R. DeLaney

ABSTRACT: Asimina manasota DeLaney, a new species endemic to longleaf pine and turkey oak sandhills associated with the upper Manatee River, upper Myakka River, and Myakka Head regions of Hardee, Manatee, and Sarasota counties, is diagnosed, described, illustrated, and depicted. It is compared to A. angustifolia Raf., and its range, rarity, extinction risks, and conservation concerns are discussed. Five natural hybrids of Asimina are also described, including: A. Xkralii DeLaney, a hybrid of A. incana and A. pygmea, from Marion County; A. Xbethanyensis DeLaney, a hybrid of A. manasota and A. reticulata, from Manatee County; A. Xcolorata DeLaney, a hybrid of A. obovata and A. pygmea, from Polk County; A. Xoboreticulata DeLaney, a hybrid of A. obovata and A. reticulata, from Highlands County; and A. Xpeninsularis DeLaney, a hybrid of A. parviflora and A. reticulata, from Hardee County.

Annonaceae, Asimina, natural hybrid, pawpaw, endemic, endangered, longleaf pine and turkey oak, sandhill, high pine, xeric upland, Myakka River, Manatee River, Hardee County, Manatee County, Sarasota County, Florida, USA.

[Keen101]

How does one get seeds or seedlings of these confirmed hybrids?

I would be very interested in the Dwarf hybrids as i live in Colorado. I need the cold hardiness but also drought adapted as well.