If we look closely at the lineage of Ukrainian hybrids the majority derives from Nikita Bordova.
The male pollinator is often unknown. So much so that until recently I was told that Cherniaeva was pollinated by Tamopan. When I said that Tamopan was not doing male flowers, our conversations were deleted.
At the risk of surprising, D. Laverne’s work was much broader.
Currently the works are coming out using the descendants of Nikita bordova. A coach uses gora goverla and gora roman kosch a lot. One of his selections that I grafted this year is called schistian gold.
We can also see on this image that some creations are not very available. Little information, probably little interest as well.
Currently the latest fashionable varieties are Adolf and Jubilee.
Hi. I see you are zone 6. What state?
I’m in RI and wondering if Zima Khurma will survive here. Also I have not seen this non astringent for sale. Where can one buy it? Thanks.
Yes Zimma Khurma should survive most of zone 6 once established. To around -20 or -24F with minimal or no damage. When young it should be protected below -10F or so as should all hybrids, since young twigs and thin young trees are often less hardy than what they become as they size up.
You will probably have to graft it, to a hardy american rootstock. Probably can order hardy seeds from Mr Cliff and grow them 2 years then get scion from him and graft it. Or order american rootstock. It would be good to make sure they are from a northern source. nuttrees.net MO department of conservation seedlings are probably good in zone 6.
I dont think its NA though, probably astringent til soft ripe like JT-02 which is another similar good one for you.
@Harbin, does Chuchupaka need a pollinator or is it self-fruitful? I just grafted one, but saw something on FB about it needing a pollinator. And if it does, would another hybrid like JT-02 work? Persimmon pollination is confusing.
Most persimmons are parthenocarpic, with a few also throwing male flowers not necessary for fruit but needed to breed and make seed. As far as I know, unless you are buying male trees on purpose, all named female trees do not need a pollinator.
Is this for all species and hybrids? I knew American persimmons were dieoecious, but I didn’t know that they could produce fruit without a male. So do they produce more fruit if a male is availabile? And it’s curious how some taste differently if they are pollinated—I’m thinking Chocolate/Coffeecake.
I think pollinators can help with fruit retention even if varieties can produce fruit fine parthenocapically. I’m going to try hand pollinating a bunch of flowers this year to see if it reduces fruit drop. There are a few studies showing this to be true in kaki already though.
My experience is limited to the American Prok and the Asian Ichi Ki Kei Jiro, but both produce a ton of fruit without a male. Prok seems to hold most of its fruit; and I wouldn’t want any more or I’d have to thin it. Last year, one modest tree produced roughly 500 fruits. On the other hand, IKKJ has a substantial early fruit drop, but this seems desirable – what’s left is quite sufficient. Last year, three small trees produced ~100 fruits each. Again, any more and I’d have to thin.
I have no nearby males, except possibly the rootstock onto which these female varieties are grafted. I have no desire for seeded fruit and no need for pollination, so I control accidental pollination from male suckers.
There is one possible future exception. Asian PVNA varieties rely on their seeds to reduce astringency. I’ve planted GIboshi / Smith’s Best. Assuming it survives, I will try it seedless (a de facto PCA). But eventually I may graft a male scion to produce seeds. As far as I know, removing astringency from PVNA/PVA types is the only reason to want seeds, unless you plan on growing seedlings for rootstock or breeding.
Breeder recommends a pollinator with Chuchupaka. I can’t tell if it needs one as I have pollinator trees (mostly Universal) in all my plantations at the ratio 1 to 30 female trees. Fruits are seeded with no significant drop at the green stage.
@Harbin Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Universal male pollinator? Is that the name of the persimmon or a special hybrid/American/Asian male persimmon?
@PharmerDrewee@jrd51 Well, I guess I will find out in a few years if the Chuchupaka needs a companion. I’m in an area with native Amercian persimmons, but I doubt there are any within a 1/4-mile.
@jcguarneri Thanks! I feel sheepish, knowing that I’ve read his comment before, probably more than once. It’s difficult to keep track of all the info on this site. Apologies, @Harbin
Now, where can one obtain Universal outside of Europe? Considering Harbin has one for 30 trees, one grafted branch should be more than sufficient for my 2-3 trees.
I just crossed pollinating Jerry Lehman Nikita’s Gift offspring male to my 5 potted Tam Kam nonastringent Asian persimmons. I will try to grow out 20 seedlings next Spring and will have to see what comes out of this hybrid persimmons crossed.
Tony, is persimmon pollen produced in noticeable amounts? I used a very fine brush to go all the way into the male flowers, and it was hard to see any appreciable amount of pollen on the brush tip. This is different than other trees like pears, peaches, and pawpaws. I guess we’ll see if my hand pollination works in a few months, but the bumblebees really seemed to like persimmon blossoms, so no one will know what was responsible for any seeded fruit.
Luckily my chocolate Kaki persimmon only puts out female flowers this year. I will crossed them too with Jerry Lehman Nikita’s Gift offspring male here soon. I will let the winds crossed pollinating my 10 varieties Multi grafted American persimmon tree. Hopefully the offsprings will get the bigger fruits from the Nikita’s Gift Hybrid larger fruits size.
Well that explains it! I wasn’t sure if the flowers were duds or I wasn’t collecting them at the right time to extract pollen. My Chocolate tree only produced female flowers too this year for some reason. Only Nishimura Wase, and Cheong Pyong had any noteworthy number of male blossoms. Kurogaki x Hokkaido had like 2 males so that barely counts towards anything other than knowing that it does produce males.
I hand pollinated as many kaki blossoms as time permitted to see if it helps with fruit drop. I also tried to make intentional crosses of JT-02 x Cheong Pyong and JT-02 x Nishimura Wase. Hopefully some fruit holds and is seeded. I’m hopeful of JT-02 x Nishimura Wase. This cross would have some potential for earlier ripening, large fruit that might be pollination variant. I’m not too sure of what to expect from Cheong Pyong. I heard it’s a cold hardier kaki so the hybrid would have more of that going for it, but probably less so than JT-02. Perhaps I could at least hope for larger fruit from the offspring.
It’s difficult to keep track of all the info on this site. Apologies, 
