The persimmons are covered by the word “Experimental” in that photo. The dark green under the “E” is a group of (very large) avocado trees. The brown trapezoid on the right edge used to be walnuts, pistachios, and apricots. Now I think only the pistachios are left. The small green plots are mostly almond crosses that are constantly undergoing selection and replanting; some of the green is strawberries. I think the brown plots are rotated between strawberries and almonds.
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Thanks, I’ll check them out when I’m there later this Spring.
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No problem. I heard the persimmons were cut back pretty severely a year or two ago. Not sure how they’ve recovered since.
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I travel to Wolfskill at least once per year. I’m curious about the UC groves so I’ll have a peek while I’m there this Spring. At present I have projects involving the NCGR olive and fig inventory – the latter will take several years to complete.
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Chinebulli and jiro are not the same varieties.
Chinebulli is tougher than jiro. It is 50% resistant to frost in open buds.
But the fruits are late-ripening.
While jiro is ripe and sweet, Chinebulli is still green. Here it is too late. No sugar, no taste, without interest for me. But he is PCNA.
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This will be one of the main problem. How to get a new PCNA variety that have a short ripening time.
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You select for it in a breeding program mapped out over 40-80 years.
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Responding to your point, though not about hybrids . . . .
Despite a restricted gene pool, Japanese breeders have had some success by selecting for earliness in PCNA x PCNA crosses. See Fig 2 in the 1st article attached below.
Soshu is reportedly quite early-ripening, late Sept to early Oct in Japan. See 2nd and 3rd papers attached.
Richard is right that is is a 40-80 year project. Luckily the Japanese started >80 years ago. Quoting the 1st paper: <<The persimmon improvement program at Okitsu began in 1938, with emphasis placed on the improvement of the pollination constant non-astringent type (PCNA). >>
Unfortunately Soshu may not be very cold-hardy. I’m not positive but I believe that Japanese breeding facilities are in Z8, no worse than Z7B. So cold hardiness is TBD.
Persimmon Breeding in Japan Yamada 93.pdf (846.8 KB)
Persimmon Research Japan.pdf (843.4 KB)
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@Marco
The research interest in Japan has mainly focused the nature of interspecies crosses, the nature of astringency, and the spectrum of characteristics in major persimmon fruits. They are also driven by an academic competition of sorts with researchers in China. They do not have a formal breeding program in place because it does not serve their interests.
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This has surely been discussed (I imagine) but digging through this and other threads, I have not found answers. Apologies if redundant. If you can at least steer me there, I’d be glad to go the rest of the way. With several hybrids and a bunch of virginiana selections at my disposal,
I’m curious to try my hand at some breeding, but would love a bit more info.
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Someone mentioned David Lavergne’s hybridization methods, and that they were “well documented”. What was his method, and how was he able to circumvent (or maybe not?) the need for embryo rescue to achieve F-1 crosses? Are any of these methods pertinent to the production of more advanced crosses, or are viability issues basically eliminated across varieties beyond F-1? Anybody here actually producing F-1’s?
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Those of you doing controlled crosses, are you doing anything to foster or further the production of male flowers or are you limiting your work to varieties known to produce them and relying entirely on providence. Persimmon sexual genetics and expression seems vaguely flushed out at best. Maybe I’m not “in the know”. I assume that polyploidy makes for opportunities for complex iterations of sex chromosomes (makes sense), yet the fluidity of expression is pretty puzzling
Happy to learn from and discuss with all those digging deep into this stuff. Nice to see so much energy around a fruit not often given its due!
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After reviewing some texts, here’s one I recommended for those developing a breeding strategy: Principles of Plant Genetics and Breeding.
Here’s a list and diagram of hybrid persimmons circulating in the U.S. and the direction several members on GrowingFruit are taking it: List of hybrid persimmon species available in USA.
This is super interesting. @Stan how would you compare this to other PCNAs, especially Jiro (sold as Fuyu by DWN)? I sampled so many PCNAs at Andy’s orchard and found none of them better than Jiro. May be Gora Roman Kosh offers some diversity I’m looking for in PCNA flavor?
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Was wondering how the Japanese researchers got Josephine? I’ve been hunting for that one for 15 years. Don’t remember Jerry having that one -definitely would’ve remembered that one.
Jerry would have loved all the posts on this topic. I never met him but got cuttings and advice from him. We still feel his presence.
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I’ve never heard any discussion of Josephine, except in the context of JT-02. I assume that Jerry Lehman had it. Does it survive now? Where?
My understanding, right or wrong, is that Jerry Lehman performed the cross-pollination, grew the fruits, harvested the seeds and then sent seeds to Japan for embryo rescue. But maybe I assumed. Perhaps somebody who knows can tell the story.
I feel like I walked in at a most=amazing time. Jerry keeped pressed upon me to be a speaker at NAFEX with him. And wanted me to breed. I sent my only male cultivars away and Tony saved Jerry’s 400-5 a -33 F hardy Rosseyanka (male) OP F1. The new owner out of no fault of (this person’s) own begain removing trees that didn’t have fruit.
It’s time Tony & I begin breeding for Jerry-
DAX
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Dax, it would be interesting to “regenerate” the males that were mistakenly removed. Not that a person could get an exact replacement, but perhaps there is enough information still available to deduce the likely parents. Of course, trials of those crosses would be needed to find males among them.
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thanks.