Hybrid Persimmons Future Look Great


I guess JT goes onto my scion exchange want list…



I’m in zone 7a or 6b depending on which website I check and interested in planting a non-astringent persimmon. Let’s assume I am in 6b. I have two astringent trees already; one is chocolate and I have no idea what the other is. I am curious to know how your grafted Tam Kam is doing in your zone 5. From what I read, Tam Kam, Chinebuli, Maekawa Jiro, and Ichi Ki Kei Jiro are probably my best bets for cold hardy non-astringent types. If you have experience or recommendations, I would be most grateful. Thank you


I have a corny question about fall foliage. Which of these have the prettiest fall foliage: Tam Kam, Chinebuli, or Ichi Ki Kei Jiro? Which is the best for consistently producing fruit? If anyone has taste preferences between these, I would love to know your thoughts. Thanks very much.


I like the fruit a whole lot better, for foliage it is hard to beat Paw-paw’s


My in ground Tam Kam graft died with the temperature of -12 F. I also bark grafted 4 Tam Kam scions from UC Davis 3 years ago and potted them up. All four had flowers this year’s for the first time and I am not sure if they will hold on to the fruits or drop them by mid June.



Thank you. Good luck with the potted plants. If the fruit develop, would love to see a picture. Best, Giovanni


Out of those you mention, Chinebuli might be the most cold hardy. I know it didn’t do so well for Cliff England this past winter. Chinebuli would also be the hardest to find. I haven’t tried the three, so I can’t offer my opinion on taste…


Is Chocolate astringent? I thought it was a non-astringent, a self-pollinating PVNA?


Here are a few photos of my Kaki and American persimmons.


Geatwall astringent Kaki potted

Tam Kam non astringent Kaki potted

Prok American persimmon astringent inground

Multi grafted 7 varieties of American persimmon in ground.


How big are the pots?

Do you gradually up pot them or put them in big pots from the start? I am trying to learn to grow fruit trees in pots.


I started growing them in the ten gallons pots and now they are in the 15 gallons pots. I probably won’t up pots them anymore and prune them to the size that is easy for over winter storage.



Thanks, Tony. Your trees are always beautiful and fruitful.


To continue on a more relevant thread.

@tonyOmahaz5 do you ever dry your persimmons? I dry a lot of non-astringents. I’ve watched videos on drying the atringent types. I wonder if drying these atringent D.V. types would work as well? It seems like a lot of work, but those things look amazing when all the sugars crystallize on the outside. They have to be peeled first to be really good.


I dried some Prok American persimmon
fruits last year for trial and they turned out really good. D.V. had a thinner skin than Kaki so I did not peeled the skin but cutted them in half and dried them in my dehydrator. It was very easy because the Prok was seedless. I also freezed some by wapping each fruit with plastic food wrap and placed them in a gallon ziplock to prevent freezer burned. They are just like a persimmon popcicle for snack.



Thanks Tony,

@mamuang, @Barkslip, @Arhus76, @SMC_zone6

The videos I watched used firm but orange astringent persimmons. They were peeled then hanged to dry whole. The workers would “roll” them to distribute moisture. It looked very tasty. I’ll probably just try slicing mine since I have an Excalibur dehydrator.

On another note, I’m trying to figure out the ploidy on lotus. I heard it’s diploid? Whereas, northern D.V. and Kaki are hexaploid 90 chromosomes. It’s been years since genetics classes. How do those two species, Kaki and Lotus, line up during meiosis? I bet this leads to some oddities. I’m not sure the word for it, but even Rosseyanka is “unstable” sometimes showing deformed leaves.

I was reading through some old NAFEX dialogues. Lucky P has seen Kaki on D.V. over 50 years old, this is back in 2011 I believe.


A photo to discuss.
Here Russian red. It’s a hybrid between rosseyanka and honan red.

But I wonder if it’s a variety of Cliff that has changed its name. It’s sold by agroforestery.
I wonder in what sense is really the cross.
I heard about rosseyanka x honan red, but also the honan red x rosseyanka.


This is my understanding that the F2 Rossyanka male pollen crossed with the female Honan Red then growed out the seed. I am not awared there was a Honan Red male



Yes, I bet this cross was originally one of David Lavergne’s crosses with his F2 male. Cliff must have grown it out to fruiting age. I have heard female persimmons will occasionally throw male flowers and vice versa.


Is Russian Beauty kaki x virginiana at 50% each? I have grafts of this year.

Thank you,



Russian butty= rosseyanka=hybrid 50%