Hybrid Persimmons Future Look Great


#161

I thought I understood but maybe I don’t Arthus.

So is Russian Beauty:

Rosseyanka x American persimmon

or

Nikita’s Gift x American persimmmon

What percentage of American persimmon does Russian beauty have? 50%, 25%, etc?

Dax


#162

I think he is saying it is Rosseyanka. I’m not sure if Rosseyanka translates to Russian Beauty, but I vaguely recall something like this.


#163

Rosseyanka is indeed Russian Beauty a name for the us market. It is the first and only direct cross of kaki and virginiana. Bred by Pasenkov in 1958.


#164

It is the first, but more have come since then. JT-02 is a true half and half. And it looks like there may be a few others here.


#165

Yes it’s the same thing. The confusion comes, I think you call Rosseyanka of pollinisation F2 and F3, who are descendants of Rosseyanka.
Rosseyanka is a 50% F1

But today it’s a mistake to say that rosseyanka is the only existing F1. I know others.

In central Europe , these male pollinisators ( I don’t know if they are the same ones) are called VKH1 and VKH2 for exemple


#166

No, it does not. Rosseyanka translates as “a Russian woman” or, formally, “a female citizen of Russia”. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/россиянка

Unfortunately, it’s common in the US plant trade to replace “difficult” foreign variety names by anglicized versions, like Russian Beauty instead of Rosseyanka or Nikita’s Gift instead of Nikitskaya Bordovaya. This often creates some confusion.


#167

This JT-02 is a very obscure persimmon. No one really knows how it came about. I’ve yet to see the fruits on a tree apart from those bletted ones on a plate that circulate the web. On the other hand Rosseyanka is well documented and to me much more trustworthy.


#168

I don’t ses on this site the hybrids you are talking about.


#169

Cliff England has a nice photo up on his website: nuttrees.net. He was kind enough to send me some fruits a year or two ago. I think @tonyOmahaz5 may have got fruits off his own tree last fall, but I’m not sure.


#170

Some nurseries will list Nikita’s Gift and Rosseyanka as trademarked, others don’t. Who owns the trademarks on these names? It seems these trademarks are largely ignored.


#171

Good question. They might have expired. It’s been awhile since their import to the USA.


#172

In my country, these varieties are no longer protected by a patent .


#173

Trade mark is not a patent. Just a name that the company comes up so they get more sale.


#174

Yes, in our country patents last 20 years or something? Trademarks are indefinite, I do think they need to be renewed or something. Other persimmons such as Fire Crystal and Hao River are also advertised as trademarked. I’ve done searching through various trademark websites with no results?? Maybe, they were never renewed?? These varieties are often well known Chinese persimmons that nurseries market with a new “trademarked” name.


#175

Does that mean that trademarked varieties can be commercially propagated but the name under trademark cannot be used?


#176

I’m no lawyer, but my understanding is they cannot be advertised with the trademarked name. I have yet to see any evidence these cultivars are currently trademarked.


#177

You can graft the trade mark variety with no issue. Now with patent then you will have to wait until it is expire.


#178

Anyone know the rosseyanka x honan red? I think I remember there was a discussion about this on a forum ( kiwi forum I think) a year or two ago.
From memory, the Russian or Ukrainian caused the male flowering of honan red to pollinate rosseyanka with extreme conditions.

As for the brands and patents of nikita and Rossey, for me the 2 have bien abandonated.


#179

A freak rain storm just rolled in. I think this is the biggest persimmon leaf I’ve ever seen. This tree is in full sun and I have fairly large hands. The 90 chromosome leaves are large on this native male.
image
image


#180

Those are huge persimmon leaves. D.V?