That is going to limit you to Asian persimmons. No hybrids or Americans are non-astringent.
And that requirement leans towards hybrids and American persimmons. They are hardier than the Asian persimmons.
PCA - pollination constant astringent (always astringent until soft ripe, whether pollinated or not)
PCNA - pollination constant non-astringent (always non astringent, whether pollinated or not)
PVNA - pollination variant non-astringent (non-astringent only if pollinated)
PVA - pollination variant astringent (synonymous with PVNA)
That’s the easiest one. D. virginiana (American persimmon) east of the Rockies and the Pacific Northwest, or anywhere growing American persimmons, D. lotus for Asian persimmons in California. If you’re in a cold winter area (which it sounds like you’re not), it’s a good idea to get northern-sourced D. virginiana rootstocks.
@hobilus , @DroppingFruit, i think @Shuimitao maybe right about asian persimmon shedding bark in his youtube video he attached.
The tree like usually looks very healthy again this year, as seen below.
Maybe i just need to use a water pressure hose and strip all that lower bark off :).
I have a hybrid (Honan Red X Rossy male) that has sent up a shoot that is much more vigorous than the original leader (as I’ve had several persimmons do). I would like to prune away the old leader and go with this one during dormant pruning, but it came from right at the graft and I want to make sure it isn’t coming from the rootstock which is D. virginiana.
Here are a couple of pictures of the top and bottom of a leaf from the new growth, plus a shot of the graft.
Do we think the leaves on the new shoot look like a hybrid?
Unfortunately, I can’t compare the leaves to the ones on the original leader since the leaves on that one had a lot of damage from nickel deficiency (mouse ear disease) so they aren’t in good shape to make a comparison. The rootstock is trying to sucker so I may need to let a sucker grow up to compare if there is any doubt.
The good news is the sad original leader is carrying 6 fruit, so if they hold I may get to taste this lesser known hybrid.
I’m looking forward to trying the fruit from this tree for the first time this year. It’s an open pollinated seedling of JT-02. The growth habit of the tree seems to be naturally compact and Christmas tree-like. And the leaves are unique in that they all have a bit of a folded/crinkled look. I’m hoping the fruit is as promising as the other attributes.
Thanks to the Urea Nitrogen 46-0-0 all my hybrids persimmons grafted with the small American persimmon rootstocks are doing great with new growth from last Fall. I gave Urea Nitrogen every 2 weeks and just gave them the last application last week for them to harden up for winter. 1/4 teaspoon and hosed them down until the white granules dissolved. Hopefully some will flowers next spring unless the Polar Vortex killed them to ground level at -33F. If so the graft union buried a foot below ground will re sprout back to the same cultivar.
Protecting some fruits of Cardinal that I pollinated with a male seedling of Nikita’s Gift. I singled out the male NG seedling because it’s cold hardy, late to break dormancy, a compact grower, produces tons of flowers, and has large dark green leaves that look more Kaki than American. Combining all of that with the early ripening of Cardinal seems like a good call.
Great job Steven. Hopefully there will be plenty of seeds to grow out for trials. I would love to have a few sticks of that male persimmon to cross with some of the Kaki that I am growing in pots now. Btw what are the parents ò Cardinal?
I’m not sure what Cardinal’s parents are. It’s from OGW. Yes to scions of the male hybrid. The other male hybrid I use is a seedling of JT-02. Both have survived down to -16 for me.
Got to taste two of my hybrids that fruited for the first time this year. I’ve noticed that persimmon fruit tends to be much smaller the first year a tree holds it to maturity, then gets larger the more the tree matures. And I’m sure the drought this fall didn’t help. So, we’ll see how these two shape up over the next couple of years. But both tasted excellent, and the JT-02 didn’t have any astringency at all, which was very exciting.
“I had cut almost all of it for scionwood back in February and sent to forum members leaving only 2 buds for it to grow from. Both are expanding rapidly. I hope to cut 7 or 8 feet of scionwood this winter. My tree is from Dax.”
Hi Darrel,
When I read this today, It was not only inspirational but caused me to think if I can do the same without damaging my first successful graft of this variety. Perhaps I can help contribute to the scion pool. I recently received around 30 very nice dv rootstocks from Stan in Tacoma. So these are ready to graft next spring. So I am contemplating using this tree as my source to graft a number of the dv rootstocks. If they take I could begin to provide scions to others.
A couple of questions:
See below pic of my tree grafted from your scions:
There are a few closely spaced tiny buds just above the graft union, are these tiny buds viable enough to revive the tree if I cut above leaving only two to grow next spring.
I placed it inside my greenhouse this week to give it some additional time to grow, so far it’s about 20” new growth above the graft union with a fork of 2 ea 10” branches about midway. The diameter is about 3/8” just above the graft union. The larger branch above the fork is also about 3/8” diameter. So it should be able to provide a number of single bud grafts.
My thought is that this tree will take a number of years before I will ever get fruits, so why not use it to proliferate the variety while the rootstock is gaining enough maturity to begin to flower. Is this line of thinking logical? Will I lose more years getting to fruit by pruning it now if I retain its oldest buds as you did?
Since it’s now potted in the greenhouse, I will need to bring it outside during a warm December day to insulate it against the coldest weather when thing begin to freeze in my greenhouse. Do you think mid Dec until late Feb is enough dormant time to allow the year old wood to rest before I take scions?
Those tiny buds are viable and would be fine to grow from next spring. 3 months of dormancy is plenty, however, the tree will respond to its own chilling requirements. In other words, it may not leaf out next spring until it has enough hours below 45F. Storing scions in a refrigerator will meet their chilling requirements.
Whatever you do now, the tree will still need 2 to 4 years to produce fruit and will have to produce enough vegetative growth to support a fruit load. It won’t make much difference if you cut scions now so long as you give the tree very good care over the next few years.
If my notes are correct, NG is the mother, some unknown DV is the father. Is that right?
Assuming so, we’d expect Chuchupaka to be roughly as good as NG. Is there any reason to expect it to taste better? And what do we know about cold hardiness? My understanding is that NG is killed at -5 F. A more cold hardy equivalent would be a meaningful improvement.
Sorry, I meant I settled on astringent due to the non-astrimgent being less cold hardy.
