The Chinese report that “the graft compatibility of the rootstock D lotus used in Chinese traditional production areas is always poor for grafting many super JPCNA cultivars.” Fuyu and Taishu are specifically reported to have poor compatibility.
They are experimenting with other rootstocks and with interstocks.
Diospyros kaki is often used as rootstock. They even have selections of dwarfing Rootstocks, to intensify production and grow crops like our apple trees.
But despite the fact that the Rootstocks are persimmon diospyros,… the agronomic sheet (which I believe I had shown) indicates that the use of Fuyu or Taishu solves the incompatibility problems. You still have to have them.
For information, here in Europe we have 8 different clones called Fuyu in the European germplasm… incomprehensible to me, especially since they are all compatible with d.lotus… which is impossible for me. My Japanese fuyu are grafted on Virginiana.
The others on lotus.
It is preferable not to graft PCNAs onto lotuses. The first year it can pass, but not for everyone. Jiro behaves well.
I tested the intermediates, but I also had grafting incompatibilities… the length of the intermediate must also be of great importance in my opinion. I don’t play with it anymore, I put everything on Virginiana.
I believe given the history of older JPCNA that Jiro could be more distantly related to some other varieties. I think I read that it was found as a wild seedling. Maybe that’s why it can graft to lotus while the others can’t. Fuyu came from a Gosho seed, I believe.
Can Gosho varieties be grafted on Lotus? Specifically Okugosho and Mikatani Gosho?
I’m doing all my new grafts on Lotus but if there is delayed graft incompatibility, I might have to revisit these plans.
Mikatami gosho, I did it on lotus without problem, especially since it’s a PVNA and not a PCNA.
the other did not.
Koda gosho and Hanagosho for example I put them on Virginiana.
Ichi kei jiro or Maekawa jiro are not good on lotus, just like Izu.
Fascinating!
Hi all,
Cliff asked me to let everyone know that he is no longer have the scionwoods for JBT-06.
Tony
JT-02 x Soshu PCNA would be a better cross because Soshu is more early ripening?
Most JPCNAs don’t produce male flowers. Taishu is an exception.
IDK about Soshu. But if it produces male flowers then yes, I’d agree.
Edit: I did a little research. p. 863 of the linked book says that Soshu has no male flowers. Judging from what happens to other PCNA cultivars, it might have a few under special circumstances. But not reliably.
That would be a cool chicken breed!
I spent 3-4 nights a week hanging out on Thayer Street in my younger years.
I audited many classes at Brown and at RISD, even stayed on and paid for credits in a few.
I went back 15 years ago and was dismayed what Thayer Street had become
Wish I had the land to plant out a few dozen seedlings of crosses. I can’t help but wonder if the whole process will eventually be shortened by genetic editing and splicing of the necessary genes into the genome of DV.
Scott
I just posted a persimmon breeding update with some urgency. Its a new thread:
When is the best time doing field grafting for persimmon , and the best method is bark grafting?I am in zone 6a. persimmon tree are still in dormant. I have tried two years and all failed. Thanks Tony for the scions, they all took.
My understanding is that the scions should be dormant but the tree should be actively growing.
People agree that outdoor temperatures should be warm but there seems to be disagreement about how warm is warm enough. Here I’ve grafted in mid to late May, when trees are actively growing, daytime temps are 60-70s, and nighttime temps remain >50 F. I plan to do a few grafts next week.
I’m a novice but I’ve done a few dozen field grafts over the past 3 years (plus 15-20 bench grafts), including American, Asian, and Hybrid scions all on American rootstock. For field grafts, bark grafts seem the simplest, especially on thicker rootstock. But I’ve also had decent success with whip & tongue on thinner rootstock. On the other hand, I’ve never had a successful bud graft in maybe a dozen tries.
One caution: The persimmon tree seems to show strong favoritism to grafts in dominant positions. So when I grafted at two spots (e.g., two forks) on the same branch, the grafts in the more dominant position generally succeeded whereas the grafts in the more subordinate position generally failed. By the “more dominant” position I mean a thicker branch, farther out and/or higher up.
Also, be sure to remove any growth that the rootstock tree pushes out that may compete with the graft.
Tony, Thank you so much for telling me so much detail !Now my persimmon are still in dormant, I did not cut scion yet, the weather here around 70s and night temp >50F, I may try grating now. may be next year I have to take scion wood early in March.
Thanks@jrd51, I will wait until the persimmon trees actively growing. you are in Zone 6b, I may save the scion woods now until June.
Just find out all three Asian persimmon trees dead to grafting unit. They are 5 yrs older trees. Have to look for Zone 6a suitable varieties.
I’d strongly recommend that you focus on (1) Asian-American hybrids, and (2) pure Americans. I don’t think there is a Kaki suitable for Z6A.
FWIW, my three mature Ichi Ki Kei Jiro appear to have been killed by the one very cold night we had (-7 F). I’m still hoping that latent buds may sprout from older wood.
Booger. As has been discussed elsewhere, “hardiness” isn’t a fixed trait, but something that plays out accordingly to circumstance. Mild weather followed by a substantial cold snap is brutal. As Lee Reich likes to say (paraphrasing), “it’s not just how cold it gets that counts, but how it gets cold.”