Is Surround just Kaolin Clay?

General Fruit Growing
#1

So I was looking at surround http://www.amazon.com/Insecticide-Organic-Surround-WP-Pound/dp/B0091UFDJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462717843&sr=8-1&keywords=surround+spray and it looks a lot like Kaolin clay http://www.amazon.com/Tranquility-Products-Kaolin-Clay-Powder/dp/B00IESOXNK/ref=sr_1_2_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1462717719&sr=8-2&keywords=Kaolin+clay+lb#customerReviews . Are they the same thing? What is your experience with Neem oil http://www.amazon.com/Garden-Essentials-16-Neem-Oil/dp/B008SV2JCA/ref=pd_sim_86_7?ie=UTF8&dpID=41%2Bo8V%2B4XXL&dpSrc=sims&preST=AC_UL160_SR90%2C160&refRID=0T3MDPD1YVN18B61EVB9 ?

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Getting to the bottom of fruit drop
#2

It’s just clay, but it has been filtered into very fine particals usinging a centrifuge. I just ordered a bag and will let you know how it works.

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#3

I have always thought that Surruond is kaolin clay.

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#4

Don’t try to spray the non surround stuff, it will clog your sprayer. It’s all about small particle size consistently so.

I haven’t found neem oil so different from just standard oil, except on peachtree borer where it has been extremely effective. It might be useful as a regular spray, like every two weeks or so, but I never tried that. It is not very powerful so you need to compensate with more frequency. It is not compatible with sulphur which is my standard disease spray so that makes it hard for me to fit it in.

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#5

You were reading my mind Scott when you said don’t try and spray kaolin clay. I wonder about regular clay as well. The mix could be made and prefiltered to ensure it would not clog the sprayer. Just thinking of ideas for now. Thank you!

#6

No idea on whether Surround works for me…This is my first year of needing it. I haven’t looked too terribly closely at fruitlets yet, as I haven’t started thinning apples yet.

If you do some really in-depth reading about Surround WP, you come up with results that suggest Surround WP has a spreader-sticker added, and this is why the SDS says 95% Kaolin + 5% proprietary ingredients. Whatever that spreader-sticker is, it passed the OMRI labeling.

Also, the particle sizes in the patents are very well-controlled, and in the papers I’ve seen it has some effect on the fact that Surround doesn’t reduce photosynthetic active light getting to the plant.

#7

I’ve heard this mentioned before here at this site.
I cannot imagine scientifically how in the world this could possibly be true.

#8

I think it is because plants get overwhelmed with too much sun/heat during a hot mid-day period, and the Surround lets them be more efficient then. So, they gain in mid-day but lose other times and it averages out.

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