I have only started using that product this year. I sprayed my trees three times before they all started blooming. My trees are still in the blooming phase now. No spraying until they have dropped their blooms. I do not have any reference for insect control as of yet. I hope it works as intended.
The manufacturer says that as long as you spray two hours ahead of any known rain periods it is okay and does not have to be re-sprayed. That is what I like. The regular sprays I feel I need to re-spray if we have a huge rain or days of rain in a row. I even use a sticking agent on my other sprays to keep the spay on longer because of the frequent rains her get here. According to the manufacturer I do not need to add a sticky agent to their sprays.
You just need to make sure to spray every 7-10 days with their product throughout the growing season. They kept making sure they said that with each person I talked with at the " Pure Crop 1" company. So I am making sure to do that. I bought a gallon and see if that lasts me all season.
Yes, those are the correct product labels. I asked the manufacturer the same thing. According to them it is also the way their is chemically bound that makes their product work better. So, we will see if their product is better or not by the end of the year.
Some good info on this thread. Iāll add a couple more thoughts.
Pyrethroids and safety were mentioned. Pyrethoids are considered a pretty safe insecticide (for humans). They work on sodium nerve channels, by keeping them open, so that the nerves are so excited to basically paralyze the insect. They donāt bind efficiently to sodium channels in humans.
Today, they are considered safe enough to spray inside the home. Here is a common indoor insecticide which contains insecticides I have used in my orchard (zeta cypermethrin - i.e. Mustang Maxx & bifenthrin - i.e. Brigade)
Organophosphates are considered much more dangerous to humans, which is why the EPA is phasing them out. They work cholinesterase inhibitors, sometimes efficiently in humans, as well as insects, depending on the compound. My applicatorās book recommends having a cholinesterase test before and during the spray season to monitor cholinesterase levels, if the applicator is spraying a lot of organophosphates or carbamates.
All that said, the soybean and corn oil may work just fine on aphids. Since they donāt fly for most of their life cycle, they canāt escape any poison (oil is a poison to them). So as long as you get good coverage (on both sides of the leaves) it should be āHasta la vista, baby.ā
Sorry I didnāt make it clear I was talking about the Bonide one, how is that one?
Okay, I understand now. The Bonide one did really well. You just have to make sure you re-apply it after you rain storms, not just a little shower but a rain. If that makes sense. The only times it did not help was when I could not spray it at a consistent schedule, mostly just the off an on rains we can get here. The years I was really diligent with the spraying it did fine.
@Palmy_Oceans, as preventative measure after you get rid of the aphids, you can also read this thread.
@Olpea thank you for the detailed information on the various insecticides I will make sure I donāt get any organophosphates.
I wouldnāt want to give the impression that no organophosphates are safe, but as a class they certainly seem to carry more risk.
The extremely lethal organophosphate, Sarin gas, is designed to kill humans. Itās 543 times more lethal than chlorine gas used in WWI. Itās 81 times more lethal than hydrogen cyanide.
But, Malathion, also an organophoshate, is considered relatively safe for humans. Safe enough that the EPA doesnāt even have a Restricted Use label for it.
Both work on acetylcholine, itās just one is much much more efficient in humans.
But, if you are desiring to be as safe as possible in regard to agricultural pesticides, itās probably best to choose pyrethroids or oils (for minor pests) as mentioned above.
Hmmm, is water poison to the drowning man. Iāve never thought of oil as a poison, but I suppose itās only a matter of semantics. If you canāt swim, water is a poison according to this dictionary definition. Certainly oil fits into this description even more.
poison
poiā²zÉn
noun
- A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
- Something destructive or fatal.
- A substance that inhibits another substance or a reaction.
The question of the danger of various pesticides is interesting and a lot of emphasis is put on the acute toxicity towards humans or mammals in general, but the risk from even discontinued organophosphates seem pretty minor compared to other things we willingly indulge in, like eating excessive sugar, for example, or refusing to exercise our muscles and cardio-vascular system regularly, or smoking, of course.
This is from an article about pesticide poisoning deaths in the U.S., āAn average of 23 deaths occur each year with pesticides as the underlying cause of death, most due to suicidal ingestionsā. from https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1059924X.2012.688467?journalCode=wagr20
Thatās a pretty damn tiny number when you think of all the pesticide applicators in this country, probably in the single digits once you remove suicide. Of course thereās also cumulative risks which are mostly significant to applicators, which the study I posted previously addresses. There are statistics within that study that make this exposure seem very dangerous, sometimes indicating twice the chance of getting a specific form of cancer, but when you combine all the statistics and boil it down to who is healthier and has less overall cancer, the pesticide exposure doesnāt seem very significant and not nearly important enough to neutralize the positive affects of farmer lifestyles, apparently, which hugely benefits farmer health.
Personally, Iām much more concerned about the environmental issues of pesticide use, as are many on this forum based on the comments here. Those issues are complicated but certainly informed hobby growers spraying fruit trees on their own land are likely to do whatever they can to avoid contamination that might kill bees or contaminate well water.
On that score, I think the general rule is, the less poison the better, the less persistence the better- as long as it is adequate to realize a good crop of useable fruit.
For aphids ,my first choice is a strong spray of water from a garden hose from under the leafs , as forceful as possible without shreding the leafs. Assuming a hose will reach area.
Next choice is white oil .
https://www.theseedcollection.com.au/blog/DIY-White-Oil#:~:text=White%20oil%20is%20effective%20against,development%20and%20populations%20are%20small.
I just put a tablespoon or so of oil ,plus a squirt of dish soap + quart water in a qt. Spray bottle,shake well , spray under leafs .
Donāt spray when above 80f.
I believe , most heavy aphid infections outside are caused by lack of natural predators (parasitic wasps , etc. )
Due to lack of habitat ( mowing too much ) lack of nectar sources to support beneficial insect populations.
AND. By use of other insecticides that kill these natural aphid predators.
Imidacloprid being one of the WORST offenders.
Used on one blooming plant in the yard could kill most all of the beneficial insects for ? Maybe a city block or so ??
The main aphid problems Iāve had over the years is with vegie starts indoors or in my fake green house (no internal heat besides heated mats). They can be lethal to tender young plants- especially my pepper starts.
The species of aphids I encounter are not easily controlled with either water, soap or oil. I have succeeded in knocking them out for the year with a single spray of Assail.
Iām not sure this speculation at all matches my experience with the insecticides I use, it certainly does not apply to lady beetles which I can easily observe. But Iām not talking about a blooming plant, which would be illegal to spray with a bee killing insecticide in the first place, wouldnāt it?
Assail ( Acetamiprid) is a neonic. In the same class as Imidacloprid . A systemic .
Pepper ( and other) plants do bloom and attract insects .
So potential for a lethal dose in nectar.
I know of several local greenhouse businesses that use systemic
ā neonicsā on everything !
Flowers , vegetables, fruit trees etc.
All of these plants bloom and attract nectar feeding insects at some point. Likely with leathal consequences !
Buyer beware ! , imagine you buy a nice flowering plant at such a place that has been treated with neonics , you buy the plant because the plant is known to attract pollinators. Which it does . But kills them all ! ?
These chemicals are used in the industry because they ARE very effective at killing insects , so $.
This is contrary to my present interest at this point, Which is to create better habitats for insects, the vast majority of which are beneficial , ā¦ā¦ a diversity of blooming plants + habitat
The only time insecticidal soap has worked for me on aphids or mites is if I spray every 4 days for two to three weeks, so 3 or 4 applications.
When the Pure Crop1 literature says āAlthough it is made from oils, it is in
fact not an oilā and itās āNanotechnology that improves plant health through increased brix levelsā but listed ingredients are vegetable oils, water and soap, it sounds like a marketing strategy to over charge.
Hope Iām wrong and it works for you.
Please show me evidence that the flowers contain adequate poison from assail to harm insects weeks or months after application. There are two types of systemic pesticides, one type travels through the entire plant, the other only the cells immediately in contact with the insecticide. I believe Assail is one of the latter as are fungicides like myclo.
I spray my pepper plants when they are indoors long before they even form flower buds.
Probably. Poison really isnāt a very accurate term when it comes to describing compounds which control pests. Weāve all heard the old oft repeated adage āThe dose makes the difference.ā
Full Quote:
Paracelsus -āWhat is there that is not poison? All things are poison and nothing is without poison. Solely the dose determines that a thing is not a poison."
I probably should have used a more accurate term, insecticide. Oil is listed on the IRAC list as an insecticide. Interesting they list it as unknown or uncertain mode of action. I thought it was well established oils coat the cuticle (at least for light common horticultural oils) and kill the insect by blocking itās respiratory openings (sort of like drowning I suppose).
Most Aphids are pretty easy to kill so a powerful insecticide is probably not required but multiple applications may be required.
Edit: I failed to mention that Rosy Apple Aphids can be hard to control since they cause the Apple leaves to curl up tightly and provide good protection against a direct hit from the insecticide.
Unfortunately, not all insects are easy to kill. Plum Curculio and Peach Tree Borer are two.
A beekeeper friend explained that the EU eliminated the use of most neonics in an attempt to preserve honey bees and other pollinators but after several years no improvement in honey bee survival was noticed. Not sure if any data confirms his explanation but he has raised bees for a long time and is considered an expert in my area.
Although i doubt spraying a single blooming plant will kill most all beneficial insects in a city block.
Hillbillyhort has a verry valid point,
Imidacloprid is a systematic insecticide with good transport within the plant. (spray half the plant and the whole plant will have Imidacloprid in itās fluids)
And it has a relatively long half life in soil or basically anywhere where itās not in water being directly hit by sunlight.
Spraying a plant or the ground can easily lead to high enough concentrations in pollen and or nectar later on in that plant to be toxic to bees.
In the EU one of the reasons certain neonicās where banned for outdoor use. Was the risk of damaging concentrations of those pesticides in pollen and nectar. Even if the plants where not sprayed during bloom. But before bloom.
I donāt believe all neonics are equal and I was specifically talking about Acetamiprid. So Iām not sure how valid your point is to my statement. Maybe you can clarify it for me.
Acetamiprid, on the other hand, has been identified as having a low risk to bees (EFSA 2016), and its approval has been renewed until 28th February, 2033 (EC 2018d). With that, this substance became the only neonicotinoid that can be used without restrictions and also in open field cultivations in Europe
from https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-022-00909-6