Jujubes- Our New Adventure


#1602

Thanks! :+1:


#1603

People thanks for your help.

I know. I’m grafting for several years and now I’m pretty good at it. With cherries, plums, pears, apples and persimmons I have success rate over 90%. Those fruit I primarily graft for now.

Both trees was just started to break buds, they were swollen. That time I didn’t want to do the grafts (I had my foot immobilized, and I couldn’t walk without support of the stakes) but I can’t pick the time except to do it when is it time.
I did several times grafts like that in the past with great success. Cause i receive some scion wood at the spring and then when I cut branches on the rootstock-mother tree for grafting I regraft those cutted ones to another tree. To the more established one, so I can have more wood growth the same year. Primarily I do that with persimmons so I can give scion wood to my friends so we can have enough number of varieties in case that something happens to mother tree. After all it’s not so easy for me to get scionwood, plants are even harder to get here. After all those cuted branches will be thrown away so why don’t I try? there is nothing to lose only to get.
With jujubes I made 2-3 grafts of each scion wood, with 2 different techniques. That way I expected to have at least 1 successful graft of each variety. But nothing from that, and I know how hard was for me to do those grafts. After that I saw that my spinosa rootstocks are also dead, later I figured out what is the problem, so this year is bad when I spoke about jujubes.

Oooh no no. I’m waiting 2-3 yrs now to have more wood :grin: I need more branches for grafting and for give away :slightly_smiling_face:
I’ll support them.
Again thanks.


#1604

Edible Landscaping. I bought four from them this year, extremely impressed with the size and quality.


#1605

Someone else posted a pretty impressive pict of one they bought from them. They are out of stock on just about everything though with no future dates. Also, I noticed they raised their shipping prices and it is quite a bit now. About 50 cents on the dollar.


#1606

I preordered mine and picked them up a month or so ago. I live nearby so I don’t have them ship, just pickup.
-Nick


#1607

Yes, there are jujubes that are better dried than eaten fresh. The NMSU “drying” page simply lists cultivars that are commonly perceived as better when dried than when eaten fresh. Nowhere on that page does it say that these fruits do not get crisper when given more water. Nowhere on that page does it say that they do not need adequate water for full flavor development. Many of the cultivars on that page are also eaten fresh. Don Polenski is listed on the drying list and does produce a very good dried fruit, but the fruit still tastes better fresh than dried, and it still gets crisp if you give it adequate water.

Jujubes that will eventually be used used for drying will get crisp if given adequate water. Both Lang and Globe are primarily used for drying, but both get very crisp if given enough water, and both can be eaten fresh. They just don’t don’t have enough flavor for fresh eating. Adequate water is still needed for full flavor development even in jujubes that will later be dried.

I don’t even know where your disagreement with me lies. What statement have I made that you disagree with?

You appear to think that fruits used for drying cannot go through a crisp stage when fresh. If so, that is incorrect. You seem to think that crispness is the factor that distinguishes dried jujubes from fresh eating jujubes. It is not. Maybe you’re thinking that fruits that will be used for drying don’t need to be given adequate water, and don’t need to become crisp before being dried. My experience is that jujube flavors, sweetness and crispness are all enhanced by adequate water in most cultivars, so if you want full development of flavor and sweetness in your dried fruit, give them more water.


#1608

@castanea,
When you said water more, how do you decide when to water for in ground trees? (I believe many of your trees were in pots when you were in CA).

Where I live, when we complain about dry, it usually mean no rain for 10 -14 days. Our dry condition is nonwhere near CA’s.

I’ve watered my jujbes trees more often these past two years. When there is no rain for over two weeks, I water my trees generously (let the hose at the base of the trees for 15-20 mins.

I had no fruit from Shanxi Li these past two years. I see that it has set several fruit this year. I hope to find out if the texture will improve.

Even before I’ve watered jujubes more, my HJ and SC that are next to Shanxi Li and received the same no water treatment, were crispy/crunchy while Shanxi (at that time) was drier (I called it spongy).


#1609

Agreed- I know that there are multi-purpose jujube, so they can definitely be crisp before being dried.

I disagree on this one. At least, if it isn’t crisp, that puts it into the drying category. To me, crisp/crunch is the primary factor in making jujubes for fresh eating, just like for apples. If an apple is generally soft/mushy/mealy/dry off a tree, it would be for processing, not fresh use. I can see how there could be edge scenarios where something is crisp, but still not suitable for fresh eating (like a cider apples with astringency), but the correlation between texture and fresh-eating is pretty strong. Now, if you are saying that crisp jujube can be dried, sure they can (see multipurpose above).

I’m not anywhere near as fond of dried jujubes as fresh ones, so I’ve generally avoided varieties classed as drying only (not that there are that many of them). But, your assertion that they need similar water to fresh ones makes sense and I will keep it in mind whenever I grow for drying.

I’m a bit skeptical that drying varieties get crisp like fresh-eating varieties. Based on my past experience, the crispness of fruit seems at least partially based on the variety. Crisp variety can be made bad through lack of water, but I’m less confident that non-crisp varieties can be made crisp with more water. But, you have more experience growing jujubes successfully than I do, so I want to keep an open mind and see if I can replicate the same behavior.

In fact, next time Chinese Red Date has trees in stock (I tried to order a week ago and they were out for 2021), I’ll include a pure-drying variety to have a good test subject (rather than just Shanxi Li, which is in theory a fresh-eating cultivar).

Please don’t take my skepticism as a rejection or an attack. I actually find it useful to hear things which don’t match my expectations, as it means there is more for me to explore.


#1610

as i see it, fresh-eating and dry-eating varieties is a matter of chinese semantics or personal preference. There is hardly any science to it. Sugarcane is quite crisp even in our torrid summers, but i prefer it as dried dates.
HJ actually makes excellent dried dates, if only they were bigger.

lang is supposedly to be eaten as dried dates, i agree with @castanea that it can be crisp when eaten fresh.
he and i have fairly similar growing conditions, although mine is a bit extreme, which maybe helps validate his findings


#1611

Raf,
How often do you water your in ground jujubes in Las Vegas?


#1612

every day or every other day, depending on when trees start looking ‘sad’

the longest have had(due to personal emergency) without watering was 3 days in >110F weather and the trees survived.
my trees are bigger now, and i presume it migth be stealing from neighbors’ yards. I still water them though-- at my whimsical terms lol


#1613

Has anyone in moister climates noticed any difference in fruiting based on how well drained the soil is? For the last 3 years, this tree has been my strongest producer per size. And last year, it produced as much or more than a tree that is 1 year older and 5-10X the size.

I got this Sugar Cane from Burnt Ridge in 2012, but kept it in a fabric pot for a few years. Then planted the pot into the ground in 2014.

Part of it’s fruitfulness is likely the varieties grafted on, particularly Bok Jo.

But, all the varieties on this tree (5 total) are producing well, so I’ve been trying to see if there is anything else about it that I can emulate.

I’ve got 2 more spots opening up, as I got tired of a couple plums black knot and non-productiveness. If it was just the un-productiveness, I would graft over it. But I keep losing grafts when either the graft or (more often) the scaffold supporting it) gets knot(s). So, I’ve removed it and ordered a couple jujube trees from Bob Wells nursery.

They sell them in 5 gal pots, so I’m thinking about up-potting one into a larger fabric pot and planting it the same way as the above Sugar Cane. Then for comparison purposes, maybe plant the other on a slight mount, made of well draining soil. The spots are pretty accessible by hose (near the potted plants in the driveway), so I should be able to water them as needed.

It’s a bit of a shot in the dark, but I figure if it did well once, then maybe it is something I can replicate. Minus the 2+ years the original spent in a pot…


#1614

soil condition is definitely a variable, but rootstock adaptability/vigor are also things to consider as not all seedlings are created equal(as rootstock or as individual plants). Especially in out-of-zone areas. Anyway, if you plant several juju seeds in one pot at the same time, you’d notice that within a few months, there will always be one that is taller and thicker in caliper, one that might be more precocious, and one that might be runty, or a combination of possible permutations.

if you’re up to it, maybe poach a root cutting or two from this tree’s rootstock and see if it might be the m7 apple rootstock equivalent that tolerates waterlogging, etc.


#1615

It’s my most productive jujube tree, so I think I’ll avoid yanking at it’s roots for now :slight_smile:

But, I will be sure to harvest any suckers I see coming up from near it. So far though, I don’t think it has produced any. In a way, I guess that makes it good as well. Just not convenient to replicate.


#1616

@jujubemulberry

Check out your great tasting Li doing on my HJ seedling rootstock. It is taking off. I cleft grafted in Early May, 2020.


#1617

Tony,
Everything grows well in your yard. You should see my brown lawn :grin:


#1618

Nice looking trees … Here is my second year Honey Jar with a Sugar Cane graft added in early April.


I also have 2 3 foot root suckers growing about 3 inches from the trunk of the tree. I would like to have these as rootstocks. I dont want to dig down that close to the trunk tho. I put an opened bottom container round them, scraped a little bark of off each below the top of the container and filled the container with potting soil. Anybody know the chances of this growing roots in the container.


#1619

that’s so gratifying to hear @tonyOmahaz5 . I hope li performs well for you. I can pretty much conclude li will have better quality fruits there than here due to your milder summers.


#1620

@jujubemulberry and @k8tpayaso, I’m wondering if there’s any advantage to using jujube seedlings as rootstock as opposed to transplanted root suckers. Do seedlings sucker less at the base of the tree? Do they make a deeper root system? Just curious what you’ve observed or researched. I’ve only grafted onto root suckers, and they seem to do okay, but they do sucker a lot at the base of the tree starting as soon as they are transplanted, if not before.


#1621

using juju seedlings as rootstock is advantageous because some of them can be desirable new cultivars(especially if you use seeds from excellent cultivars–sihong, hj, etc). Growing them from seed also ensures that you have them growing as veritable juveniles, as opposed to using a sucker that has been serially cloned from an old rootstock(that is if you believe in senescence or ageing being conferred on each and every clone). Of course this may not matter much in human terms since jujus can live more than a thousand years.

suckering is an individual thing as well, some seedlings sucker vigorously, while others are a bit stingy. Growing conditions/pruning may also influence tendency to sucker