Kieffer Pear

There are many false kieffer pears being sold so I recommend caution. @39thparallel sells trees. I trust his kieffer are actual kieffer pears.

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Hambone,
Another possibility is you can get scion wood easily and graft your own trees. Consider ordering rootstocks.

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This is for a friend so I’ll pass this info on to her. Pineapple pear looks intriguing too.

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I did not realize this. Thank you for this information about the false Kieffer pear trees being sold.

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Many years ago I bought several that were sold as kieffer and none of those were actually kieffer!

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After seeing several post on here of Kieffer which reminded me of the ones I ate in my younger days I’m pretty sure my Kieffer is not the original one although it was labeled as such. My guess is some of these that are incorrectly labeled are seedlings or bud mutations. With that said I’m pleased with the one I have as it has been a reliable annual bearer (three seasons) without any notable disease issues. I probable will add a few scions later on of the original for comparison.

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As I see more fake kieffer trees sold everyday I wonder how many people actually have real kieffer pears anymore. I had a hard time finding the real one but eventually I did. Every year we see multiple posts to the forum of pears sold as kieffer etc. That are not. Kieffer ripen in the fall. So called improved kieffer ripen in August typically.

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I tend to think mine are Kieffer because of all the grit

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Mind you “fall” is a relative thing. Most of my pears ripen in July because they bloom in February and early March. I’m not trying to contradict you. It’s just a reminder that some of us have really long seasons. But yes, I’ve seen enough diversity in Kiefer descriptions to know that there has to be more than one. There has to be more than one LeConte. Pears of New York sais that LeConte has lower quality than a Kiefer. Personally, I don’t get how one can compare the two at all since one is a mid season soft pear and the other is a very hard late pear. Anyway, there is apparently a fire blight prone hard LeConte out there. But the one described by the LeConte family and the one in my yard is a seeminly delicious fire blight resistant soft pear. But it has been a slow grower until this year. Since I added the magnesium, it has found its mojo. God bless.

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I suspect that the Kiefer counterfits are seedlings with a lot of grit. Clark’s point is that there is an original Kiefer out there that someone thought was pretty good. Clark has one that he thinks is the original, and he seems to think it’s pretty good. Lots of these old varieties end up having lots of counterfeits. Just go the USDA Germ plasm database for pears and you will see that there is a least a page Bartlett rip-offs listed. Which is the real Bartlett pear? Who the heck knows? My guess is that a lot of them are seedlings of each other and are so similar to each other that it hardly matters. God bless.

Marcus

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That’s true @coolmantoole I agree fall is relative. Kansas gets so hot we ripen pears in July that are August or September pears at times. Improved kieffer which is nearly identical to kieffer accept it ripens 1-2 months earlier might be a better way to say the difference between the original kieffer and the improved variety.

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I’m pretty sure my Kieffer is different from the one I ate growing up. It ripens much earlier and actually taste better than what I think was the original.

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The Kieffers I’ve tried make great pickles and are good for canning. But peeling pears is hard on my hands to begin with, and Kieffers are murder. Winnie is much more my speed. Firm enough to make a good cooking pear but soft enough to peel easily. God bless.,

Marcus

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The kieffers I have are good pears when ripe. They get softer once ripe but still firm and not overly gritty but yet course and not buttery. I know I’ve posted information about kieffer before though I think it’s worth it to say it again. Kieffer was grown from a seed of a Sand Pear by Peter Kieffer of Roxborough, Pennsylvania. Presumed to be a cross of Sand Pear and Bartlett. First fruited in 1863 and the first Sand Pear hybrid to assume importance. It is the standard by which other varieties of the group are judged. Fruit medium or larger in size, ovate in form, usually pointed at both stem and calyx ends. Skin greenish-yellow in color, often blushed dull red, numerous large russet dots. Flesh gritty, fairly juicy, tender but not fully buttery. Fair in dessert quality, quite satisfactory for culinary purposes. Improves in quality if harvested at the proper time and ripened at a constant tempeature of 65 degrees F. Tree fairly vigorous, moderately productive, somewhat resistant to fire blight. – H. Hartman, 1957.
About 1855 Peter Kieffer of Roxborough, Pa., planted seed from a Chinese Sand pear tree growing in his yard and generally considered to have been pollinated by a Bartlett tree nearby, from which the original Kieffer tree sprang. Possibly no other pear has been so loudly praised and yet so roundly cursed. For years after its introduction there were bitter battles waged over the blight proof character of the tree and the high quality of the fruit. But now that the smoke has cleared away and the issue is less befogged by violent discussion, the virtues and faults of the Kieffer can be more intelligently discussed. The large-sized, symmetrical, oval fruits, clear yellow in color, and often blushed on the side next the sun, are attractive to the eye, but the coarse, granular, though juicy, yellowish-white flesh is so lacking in flavor that it is rated by the palate as ‘poor in quality.’ For culinary use, however, Kieffer has virtues often forgotten or overlooked, for when canned its firm, white flesh is attractive and pleasing. There are rumors from time to time of Kieffer pears shipped to other countries to return in cans marked ‘Bartlett,’ so that perhaps the very man who decries the Kieffer the loudest is this moment loud in his praise of a canned Kieffer under the guise of ‘Bartlett.’ There is no ‘blight-proof’ pear. Kieffer is as blight-resistant as any, which amounts in some sections to the same thing as being blight-proof. Nurserymen delight in the free, vigorous growth of the trees, a habit that it does not cease when in the orchard. It comes into bearing young, is resistant to scale, and bears annually and abundantly. In fact, it is necessary to guard against the danger of overbearing, or the reward will be nothing but small-sized fruit. Because of the vigor of the tree and its tendency to overbear, it has come to be the system in sections to stub the trees every year. While this seems to be a necessary practice as the tree gets older, it will be found that the tree will come into bearing much earlier if it can be left to grow more to itself the first few years of its life and then be taken into hand before it gets beyond control. As for top-working the Kieffer, generally speaking the operation is a failure. Most success has been with very young trees. Possibly the chief virtue of the Kieffer pear is its adaptability to a wide range, and especially to the warm, dry sections of America, such as the South and the Middle West, where the European pear, adapted as it is to cool, moist regions, will not thrive. The nature of its seed parent exerts itself in its offspring, and the range of pear growing is thereby greatly extended. In some years, Kieffers are a glut on the market, but it is noticeable the producer of large-sized, well-matured fruits is neither worried nor affected by low markets. Blight has taken a heavy toll from Eastern pear orchards in recent years, so that the time may be approaching when a higher price will prevail generally. Yet it must be affirmed that where the better varieties can be grown it is a mistake to plant the Kieffer." With all that said there are hundreds of new hybrids and some of these unknown pears could be any of them

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The arbor day blog said this “
TREE OF THE WEEK
Kieffer Pear: An Unexpected Delight
By Sheereen Othman | November 1, 2016

Pyrus communis x P. pyrifolia

The Kieffer pear tree is said to be an accidental hybrid, a cross of the Sand Pear and Bartlett. It was first cultivated on the farm of Peter Kieffer in Philadelphia in the 1860s. So how did the Kieffer pear come to be? Peter Kieffer planted a seed from a Sand pear tree, and it was pollinated by a nearby Bartlett pear tree. The effortless product that came grew in popularity for its mixed characteristics, resembling that of a pear and an apple.

Kieffer pears are large and golden yellow with a coarse, white flesh (drier than Orient Pear) and musky aroma. They are very hardy, tolerating both drought and floods (hardiness zones 4-9). The tree blooms small, white flowers in the spring and has dark glossy leaves. Similar to other pear trees the Kieffer is self-fertile, but for optimal results planting a second pear tree is beneficial. It is fast growing, so it won’t be long before you can enjoy the fruit under the shade of its canopy. Kieffer pear trees reach up to 20 feet at maturity.”

If you have the patience you can find additional information here http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/Gardener-Monthly-V25/index.html

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This article though full of grammatical errors that were so common during that time is as close to truth about kieffer as we may ever see published by Pacific Rural Press, Volume 41, Number 4, 24 January 1891
“The Kieffer Pear and Its Originator.
There is muoh difference of opinion in this State concerning the Kieffer pear, and really maoh difference in quality in the variety as grown in different parts of the State; still the following article, whioh Thomas Meehan of Philadelphia writes for the London Gardener? Chronicle, will be read with muoh interest:
Peter kieffer was the originator of the Kieffer pear. All over the world of gardening probably the Kieffer pear is known. Certainly in the United States, hundreds of thousands have been planted and hundreds of thousands of dollars realized from its sale. The owner of the tree, a near neighbor of mine, received probably bnt a few hundred, if that maoh. It seems that the great circle that has derived so maoh pleasure and profit from bis work should at least know something of the man, who died on Nov. 7th, at his home in the suburbs of Philadelphia. He was a Frenchman, born In Alsaoe Jane 29, 1812. He arrived in New York December, 1834. Failing in employment there, he walked through snow two feet deep to Philadelphia, 100 miles, and obtained a situation as gardener to the famous agriculturist James Gowen, of Mount Airy, near here, where he married and finally bought a few acres and started a little market garden and small nursery. * * * All around Philadelphia are numerous rare trees and plants, the history of whioh no one knows, and the mystery is asually finally settled by the remark. " probably something introduoed by Peter Kieffer." The Sand pear of Japan, so far as relates to the older trees growing in this seotion of America, if not in other parts, he certainly introduoed. Numerous trees were fruiting here between 30 and 40 years ago—the frnit regarded as of no or little culinary value, bat maoh esteemed for its delightful perfume. Mr. Kieffer raised seedlings from bis tree, whioh were sold yearly from his little nursery. His tree grew close to a Bartlett (your Williams’ Bon Chretien), and the branches of the two interlaced. Some slight difference in one seedling was noted, and it was preserved from sale. This proved what is, from the above facts, reasonably believed to be a true hybrid, the Kieffer pear. The fine red cheek, and some general appearance to the Flemish Beauty, has oaused the statement to appear in oar pomologioal works that it is a hybrid with the Flemish Beauty. Mr. K. grafted and sold a few here and there for five dollars each; but though he distributed among his few horticultural friends annually fruit that would make the most oold-souled epioure leap with joy, no effort was made by any one to plaoe it properly on the market. At length the great Centennial Exhibition came. Mr. Kieffer had some on exhibition; these excelled in size, beanty, flavor—everything, indeed, for which any pear oould possibly be esteemed. The writer, who was secretary to the jury, can truly say that be remembers eating no pear like them. They had a medal and a strong report in their favor; and Mr. Wm. Parry, a wellknown introducer of new fruits, made an arrangement with Mr. Kieffer for grafts. In this way the variety got regularly into commerce. It may be said that gardening is no longer an art here as it was in Mr. Kieffer’s day. A fruit has to be “hardy " and " first olass,” just as Nature gives it to you. You plant the tree, but, to a very great extent, it must forever after be able to take oare of itself. Mr. Kieffer knew how to gather and how to oare his pears; year by year, since 1868, when the Kieffer pear first fruited, you could go to his house, and out of his cellar he would bring you fruits the like of whioh you might not find elsewhere. Few, if any, can get Kieffer pears as Kieffer had them, and the art has died with him. In oar fruit lists it is simply classed as " valuable for market purposes," and the frait chapters tell as it is “a very variable kind.” Philadelphia is being fast covered with buildings over its vast area of 120 square miles. The original Kieffer pear tree is still standing in Mr. Kieffer’s grounds, but it will probably not be many years before the march of improvement will bid it begone.” —Pacific Rural Press 24 January 1891 — California Digital Newspaper Collection

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Yet another perspective from https://www.austin360.com/lifestyles/food--cooking/kieffers-secret-they-grow-here-taste-great-ripe/ZO1xjk22qCKQk9xuz7AYrO/

“Kieffers’ secret: They grow here, taste great ripe
Renee Studebaker AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
2:05 p.m Thursday, Nov. 19, 2009 Food
I love Kieffer pears.

I love them raw - crunchy and dripping with their own sweet juice. I love them sliced and laid out on a cold plate beside a good stinky cheese - a perfect pairing of crispy sweet and savory smooth flavors. And I love them cooked into a sweet and spicy compote and spooned over grilled pork.

So why am I telling you this? Because Kieffers, the pears most likely to be found growing in backyards and on small family farms all over Central Texas (and most of the South), have a reputation for being not very good - OK for canning, but not much else. In other words, if you really need a pear, and a Kieffer is the only one available, don’t expect to be impressed. Well, I must disagree. I would never think of it as the pear of last resort.

I do wonder about the taste buds of some of the food and agriculture writers who have described the Kieffer as “barely edible,” or “more like medicine than food.” Perhaps the fruits they sampled were not harvested and ripened properly. (Kieffers need to be picked when mature, but still hard; then they should be ripened in a cool space for two or three weeks until their sugary juices develop and their skins turn slightly yellow.)

It’s also possible that the Kieffer has been stuck in the same “Southern food that’s not fit to eat” category as another Southern heritage favorite of mine, the purple hull pea. (By the way, the purple hull pea, once dismissed as food fit only for cattle, is now enjoying a new popularity among young locavores who are tasting them for the first time at fine-dining restaurants such as Wink and Jeffrey’s. Maybe Kieffers are next. Check out chef Matthew Buchanan’s Kieffer pear dishes on the fall menu at Leaning Pear Café & Eatery in Wimberley.)

When I was a kid, I had no idea that some folks didn’t like my favorite pears. At the start of each fall, my sister and I would start wondering about “the pears.” “Isn’t it about time for ‘the pears’?”

“The pears” in question were the big lumpy speckled fruits growing in Great Aunt Iola’s backyard in Arkansas. Iola (now there’s a name you don’t hear much anymore) always had more pears than she and her family could eat, so relatives and friends would visit in the fall, armed with paper sacks and cardboard boxes, to load up on the fruits that we thought were the sweetest and juiciest pears around.

At that time, no one in my family cared much for the commercially grown pears in the supermarket that ripened into elegant but squishy orbs of sweet flesh. We much preferred the firm but juicy crunch of Iola’s lumpy pears.

It wasn’t until years later that I figured out that Iola’s pears were Kieffers - and that I didn’t have to travel all the way to her backyard in Arkansas to eat one. I could grow my own or buy them at a local farmers’ market.

If you aren’t growing Kieffers, farmers’ markets are your best bet for finding them. I’ve also spotted them in the produce section at Central Market, and some of the best Kieffers I’ve ever tasted came from a garage sale near the corner of Speedway and 32nd Street a few years back.

The Kieffer is a cross between a Japanese pear (or Nashi) and a European pear (probably a Bartlett) that was developed by Peter Kieffer in 1863. In the old South, Kieffer trees were prized for many reasons: They were heavy producers; the pears stored well if picked when mature (but still green) and kept in a cool place; and the pears’ crisp texture made them perfect for making preserves and pies.

But then (and now), perhaps the most important reason to love your Kieffer pear tree was for its ability to survive, and even thrive, in less-than-ideal growing conditions. Kieffers are resistant to fire blight, a disease that wipes out most pear trees grown in areas with hot, humid summers. Blight is the reason that European varieties like Bartlett, Bosc, Anjou and Comice have not been successfully grown in Texas.

So, being that I live and garden in Central Texas, it’s a good thing that if forced to choose between a sweet, crunchy Kieffer and a soft, creamy Bartlett, I’d just as soon have a crispy Kieffer. But that’s not to say that I don’t also enjoy a good buttery pear. When a Bartlett is perfectly ripe but not too ripe and at its sweet and creamy best, it’s hard to beat. But a Bartlett won’t grow in my backyard. And unless I move to Oregon or California, I won’t find one at the local farmers’ market.

And speaking of farmers, I’ve been purchasing Kieffers from Lightsey Farms (a regular vendor at the downtown market at Fourth and Guadalupe Streets) for the past month. (I didn’t get any pears from my backyard tree this season, but more on that later.)

Kieffer pear season is drawing to a close, but Lightsey Farms expects to have Kieffers for sale until mid-November ($5 for a basket that contains 4 to 6 large pears).

If you’d like to try growing your own, now is an excellent time to plant fruit trees. One thing to keep in mind, though: Raccoons love Kieffer pears, too.

My backyard Kieffer tree was covered in baby pears in June. I was thrilled. It was going to be my best crop ever. But then one night the raccoons came and ate them all - except for one sad little misshapen pear. (Grrrr.)

Since then, I’ve planted two more trees and purchased a secret weapon - a motion-activated (and really scary-looking) talking tree creature. When barely bumped, the battery-operated Talking Haunted Tree Face mask ($34.99 at the Spirit Halloween Superstore) comes to life with eyes that light up and lips that move while he says stuff like: “Hey, you. Yeah, you. Come over here.” And: “Now make like a tree and leave!”

I’m thinking I’ll try it out Halloween night. If it scares trick-or-treaters, maybe it will do the same to the raccoons next spring.

If nothing else, maybe it will give everyone (including the raccoons) a good laugh.

rstudebaker@statesman.com; 445-3946

Texas chef’s delight for fall

Native Texan Matthew Buchanan, chef/owner of Leaning Pear Café & Eatery, likes Kieffer pears enough to work them into his fall menu. "I honestly can’t say that if I had to only eat one pear the rest of my life that Kieffers would be the one, but I do like them for their crisp texture and citruslike flavor.’’

Buchanan and his wife have several old Kieffer trees on their Wimberley ranch. “We opened the Pear in 2007 and that fall there was a bumper crop, so we integrated them into the seasonal offerings because we had so many to use. There is definitely something special about knowing where they come from, in this case family land, and that no matter how brutal the summer might be those pears still come through, a reminder of how rugged the Kieffer has to be to survive the Hill Country summers - just like the rest of us,” Buchanan says.

"The most prolific of the trees out at the ranch sits in the middle of a rocky, parched pasture where it seems even the cedars can’t make it. My wife Rachel and I sat many an evening out on the back porch at the ranch, in the same rocking chairs her grandparents sat in years before, staring out at that tree thinking up ideas for what is now the Leaning Pear. It had a lot to do with our decision to name the restaurant what we did.

“So I guess I do have a soft spot in my heart for Kieffers that goes beyond a love for their flavor, but the fact that they grow locally in such large quantities is certainly a benefit. Plus, I always enjoy using an ingredient that may not have the best reputation to create something delicious and change a person’s preconceived notion; it’s fun for me and a pleasant surprise for guests.”

  • Renee Studebaker

Here are two Kieffer pear recipes on the fall menu at the Leaning Pear (111 River Road, Wimberley):

Kieffer Pear and Gorgonzola Soup

2 Tbsp. butter

1 large yellow onion, diced

2 celery stalks, diced

1 parsnip, peeled and diced

1 garlic clove, minced

6 cups Kieffer pears, peeled, cored and chopped, plus extra for garnish

7 cups chicken or vegetable stock

3 Tbsp. honey

1/2 lemon juice

4 Tbsp. Gorgonzola dolce,* crumbled, plus additional for garnish

Salt and pepper to taste

Walnuts, toasted for garnish

In a large saucepot melt the butter over medium heat. Add the onion and cook until translucent but not browned, then add the celery, parsnip and garlic and cook another 3 to 5 minutes, stirring constantly. Stir the pears into the pot and then add the stock. Bring to a simmer and cook over low heat for about 20 minutes or until the parsnips and pears are soft.

Purée soup using an immersion or traditional style blender until very smooth. Stir in the honey, lemon juice, salt, pepper and Gorgonzola. Check seasoning and serve warm garnished with toasted walnuts, Gorgonzola and julienned pears.

*I also love using Pure Luck Dairy’s Hopelessly Blue to keep it local.

Pear and Apple Crisp with Granola Topping

1/2 stick butter

1/2 cup brown sugar

1 tsp. cinnamon

1/4 tsp. nutmeg, freshly grated

1/4 tsp. allspice

3 pears, peeled, cored, sliced

3 apples (Macintosh, Fuji, Granny Smith or combination), peeled, cored, sliced

1 Tbsp. cornstarch

2 Tbsp. Poire William or other pear brandy

1/2 tsp. vanilla

1 tsp. salt

Granola Topping (recipe below)

Pecan Ice Cream (recipe below)

Preheat oven to 375 degrees F. In a large saucepan, melt the butter over medium heat. Whisk in the brown sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg and allspice. Add the pears and apples; stir a couple of times. Sprinkle the cornstarch over the fruit and stir until no lumps remain. Add the salt, vanilla and Poire William and stir to combine. Spoon the mixture into individual ramekins or one large baking dish, top with the granola crust and bake until brown on top, 25 to 40 minutes.

Granola Topping

1/2 stick butter

1/4 cup brown sugar

1 cup rolled oats

2 Tbsp. flour

1/4 cup pecan pieces

1/2 tsp. salt

In a mixer with paddle attachment, cream the butter and brown sugar, then add the remaining ingredients and mix to combine.

Pecan Ice Cream

11/2 cup pecan pieces

8 egg yolks

2 cups milk

1/2 cup plus 1 Tbsp. brown sugar

1/2 cup plus 1 Tbsp. sugar

2 cups heavy cream

1 tsp vanilla

In a blender, combine 1 cup of the pecans, egg yolks and milk. Purée until very smooth and strain into a large bowl; set aside. In a large saucepot, combine the brown sugar, sugar, heavy cream and vanilla. Bring to a bare simmer. In a slow steady stream, add the hot mixture into the cold mixture while whisking constantly. Be careful not to cook the egg yolks. Return the entire mixture back to the saucepot and gently heat to 170 degrees. Remove from heat, strain and fold in the remaining pecans and chill. Freeze in an ice cream machine.

  • Matthew Buchanan, Leaning Pear Café & Eatery, Wimberley

Fall Garden Salad with Kieffer Pears and Lemon/Pear Vinaigrette

For the salad:

A couple of handfuls of baby mixed lettuces and greens, washed and dried

1 sweet red pepper, julienned

1/4 cup thinly sliced sweet onion (or 2 scallions, chopped)

Several salad tomatoes, sliced

1 or 2 fuyu persimmons, peeled and julienned

1/2 cup Kieffer pear, peeled and julienned

1/2 cup crumbled blue cheese

1/4 cup pecans, lightly roasted in a dry skillet

Pear quarters and sprigs of lemon verbena and thyme for garnish

For the dressing:

1/4 cup pears, peeled, cored, cubed

1 clove garlic, smashed and chopped

1 tsp. dijon mustard

1/3 cup white wine vinegar

Juice of 1 large lemon

2 Tbsp. agave nectar (or honey, or maple syrup)

1/2 tsp. sea salt (more or less to taste)

1/4 cup extra virgin olive oil

1/2 tsp. fresh thyme leaves

1/2 tsp. fresh lemon verbena leaves

For salad: Arrange salad greens, vegetables and fruits on plates, top with cheese and nuts, garnish with pear quarters and herb sprigs and drizzle lightly with dressing.

For dressing: Combine all ingredients except oil and herbs. Purée using immersion blender (or food processor or standard blender). Add oil slowly and continue to purée until smooth and creamy. Add fresh herbs and pulse briefly. Using a wooden spoon, gently press the mixture through a strainer. Cover and refrigerate.

  • Renee Studebaker

For the love of Kieffers

Horticulturist and Kieffer pear fan Thomas Meehan writing in 1882 on the quality of Kieffer pears:

‘A correspondent writes that he bought one of the Kieffer pears offered (for sale at a) Philadelphia market, paying him twenty-five cents for the specimen. That it had a remarkably taking appearance; but that when he took it home he found to his sorrow that it was not worth taking, except as medicine. This is quite likely, and yet does not prove that the fruit is not of superior quality when properly grown.’

Southern cookbook writer, fresh food advocate and Kieffer pear fan Edna Lewis writing in 1988 on backyard fruit trees:

‘When I was a child, nearly everyone had at least a few fruit trees, all bearing different fruit ? Small orchards are disappearing. They were planted by another generation for us to enjoy, and if you have the space, think about planting some fruit trees for the next generation.’

A commenter writing about Kieffers in July on Cooks Illustrated bulletin board (americastestkitchen.com): ‘My dad made wine from the peels and cores. My mother canned the pear halves with red or green food coloring for Christmas meals, red also goes for Valentine’s Day. My husband and I like them raw.’

October in an Austin garden is a magical time when warm and cool weather vegetables thrive alongside each other. Fall tomatoes and peppers are ripening on the vine while baby lettuce greens are shooting up to join them. Add to that a bounty of autumn fruits and nuts (including, of course, Kieffer pears), and you’ve got the makings for a perfect garden salad”

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This article makes me think so many of the so called Kieffer pears really are not the true Kieffer but a sport variety of the Kieffer. I know that some sport varieties look a lot different than their parent yet some sport varieties look so similar that it is tough to tell unless you have them side by side. So the next question is where can you get an authentic Kieffer pear tree?
Some apple hunters do not “register” the apple tree as the authentic variety until the have done a real comparison of fruit, tree, leaves, etc. Does the same system apply to someone doing pear grafting and growing?

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Mike I think ARS Grin is the best place to get true to type varieties and even then it’s not 100%. Everything I got from them has been true to type.

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I tried to ripen some keiffers last fall but I put them in the fridge and only one out of six turned out ok, the rest rotted. Sounds like the fridge was too cold for them to ripen properly

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