Large rootstocks from Fedco

I’ve had pretty good luck with the offset whip and tongue. Just cut the scion diagonal cut first so you know how much to cut off on the rootstock. I really struggle with cleft grafts, but you can do an offset cleft graft too. Just make the downward cut on the rootstock a little closer to the edge.

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I’d use a ‘side graft’ preferrably…or a cleft. Prefer cleft if scions are small enough to put one on each side of the cleft and match cambium on one side to one side of each scion.

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For a mismatch in size I use a side whip and tongue graft or a cleft graft. For side whip and tongue, make the cut to the scion first, then make a cut to the rootstock that corresponds in shape half the cut on the scion.

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Same here. Both M111 and B9 were huge. I did mostly cleft grafts. Not my favorite, but works. I’m starting to clone my own rootstocks. I had some M111 from my own stool beds and they matched my scions perfectly.

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i also have some really thick and tough rootstocks this year. I’ve found doing a chip bud goes much faster and easier than trying to cut a W&T.

It takes a little bit of practice though. And on thick stock. Varying the depth of the receiving chip bud slot, even a little. Drastically increases the width of the cambium lines for grafting.

Is a post with 2 good video’s linked on learning to chip bud.

You could practice some. I really like it. Also for it’s ease of grafting with different calipers stock and scion.

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It’s funny you said the bit about precision machining. I’ve worked my whole life (I’m almost 50) as a tool and die maker and mechanical engineering. My mindset is always that “thousandth’s” of an inch are crucial, and seeing 1/8” of variation in the diameters of these rootstocks/scions makes me cringe.

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Ha! That is pretty funny. I’ve been trying to find parts for old tools lately and I’m quickly learning just how noticable a thousandth of an inch can be when you’re trying to fit two parts together. Fortunately trees can grow to fill in any gaps or smooth over any bumps.

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I got about 18% of my rootstocks at 7/16 of an inch…so some of them I’ll pot and bud later probably…excellent roots.4 of them grafted so far. Some at 1/4, and most at 1/8. I prefer the 1/8 actually…mainly because so many scions are smallish…plus the scion is limber and easy to manipulate.

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Yep, as Alan, cleft lined up one side. Clefts need good support. I switched to a better tape this season.

Check out those Z grafts. You have several “chances” to get some contact, and they work well with different sized wood. When I can’t bark graft, I use Z grafts. (And chip buds.)

This kind of Z grafting: Grafting Fruit Trees Step-by-Step

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Same here. My Bud 9 were bigger than most of my scions. One of the cases where bigger is not necessarily better.

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I still like using 2 scions in cleft of larger rootstocks (provided they fit of course)…each of the scions lines up to one side of the root. Doubles the take rate, and also much improves the healing process of the cut in the rootstock. I remove one of the limbs in a year or so if both take.

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@BlueBerry , just how much difference between the scion size and the rootstock size are you able to manage and still get good healing?

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Thanks. I’ve not pushed this to the limits…like trying to cleft graft a couple 1/16 inch scions into a tree three inches in diameter! Maybe somebody else can help.

Ideally, I’m using the cleft graft to put a couple 3/16 inch pieces of scion into a 1/4 inch rootstock…something that almost covers all the exposed surface of the benchgrafted rootstock.

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Thank you. I’ve tried cleft grafting to branches that might be 1 1/2" and scions less than 1/4". I get takes, but the gap left between the scions takes forever to heal. I’ve had better luck with bark grafts on larger stock, though, so I guess I’ll keep on with those.

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I’d agree. Especially grafting to larger trees once the sap is up.

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I have some questions and thoughts about cleft grafting, but I don’t mean to hijack this thread. I think I’ll start a new one.

One tip on this: cut off the extra if you’re a beginner. Or even not a beginner. It stays a random flap unconnected to anything most of the time, and it’s what can make it harder to wrap. Just trim it right past what will be wrapped and connected.

@royce Hi, just stick with whip and tongue. Don’t cut all the way thru the roostock since it’s thicker if you cut all the way thru. Instead, cut a flat piece off just as you would if you were going to cut thru the rootstock. You’ll have a flat spot to do all the same carpentry, however, you wouldn’t of just thru the entire roostock, as I keep saying. It’d be like a modified whip and tongue. So aim for width of your scion as you cut the rootstock to that width.

Chip budding is good for less caliper than rootstock scions you have vs. scions similar in width. You’re mentioning something about 1/8" difference in ‘typical-ness’ of scions you collected vs. rooststock size, find your scions that are more than more than 1/8th less than rootstock to chip bud those. Again, control your cut to be as narrow as the scion on a thicker rootstock. When your new to chip budding and holding a thicker thick to remove a chip bud… you’re likely like me pulling the knife toward your belly & if you don’t know what’s going on at every second, the knife will come loose and you’ll cut your stomach. So another way to learn is to have a cork cutting board if you can find one. Otherwise use a plastic kitchen cutting board. Learn to do your cuts sitting down such as at a picnic table on a cork board.

Option otherwise is to be extremely careful and find (a) side of the rootstock where you can create a flap that’s the diameter of the scion. Usually with a significant difference it’s going to be difficult to make a cut for a “wedge” “cleft type cut” to be stuck down in there. And then wrapped up. That cut is about as dangerous as any on the rootstock. Before you know it the knife has cut off the piece of rootsock instead of cutting a usable flap to insert behind that’s the exact/similar corresponding calipers.

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