Low-Impact Spray Schedule (2019 Edition)

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#131

Scott, thank you so much for this! I have read it over and over again.

It’s been 3-4 years now and I barely get any fruit from my Apple, Pear, Cherry, peach, plum and pluots, (just 5 peaches and handful cherries). Over the years, I have bought so many sprays, Bonide mostly. This season, Up to now, I have used dormant oil and copper and Spinosad powder. I am trying to figure out what to do next. I always seem to miss a step. I feel like I just want to use what I already have in my arsenal.

In the photo link you shared of the different stages of growth, They refer to stage three to four if I am not mistaken as green cluster. I think am at that stage right now.

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Last night, I hit them all (and my roses) with one of the many sprays I own:

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It smelled so bad. I am not sure I want to use it again! I really prefer to not mix my own Captan, I am terrible at fractions! I have a small hand sprayer which never translates well. Especially, when I have all these fruit sprays already. But I am being told, what I used is not nearly enough in strength.

What would you recommend I do now?

Would you recommend I try surround (which is (one I don’t own) when I see fruit? (Just a few flowers are starting. )Can I do anything now?

I definitely saw curio on peaches last summer. Leaf curl was another issue last year. Japanese beetles were all over my roses.

Somewhere I read that putting ashes at base would help stop curio and other destructive insects. I am trying that.

I am a big fan of Arbico and I have on order beneficial insects… I would hate to kill them. (Lacewings program and my personal favorite assassin bugs!) I have planted a garden just to attract beneficial insects and omnivore birds.

I have a tiny yard 6,000 square feet with 15 feet between me and my neighbors. I can’t be out there in a hazmat suit. People around here would go crazy if I am out there spraying in 6a Coastal Massachusetts! I need to be discreet.

I seriously would pay to have you devise my own spray program. Next to carrying around my huge heavy rubber black hoses around the yard, choosing and mixing sprays to use is my least favorite gardening chore.

Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge!

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#132

That spray has malathion in it which kills curc so it should work if you are applying it regularly from petal fall until the fruits are dime sized.

I don’t think beneficial insects work well in a small yard, they all fly off too fast. The malathion in your spray will also kill them.

I would try Surround from petal fall through mid-June, it should work well enough to give you some fruit and it is not toxic.

Also make sure to pay attention to the specific problems you have. For curc, Surround will work. For the beetles Surround also works. It is not clear if you have other problems or not. Including some Captan as well for disease control would probably be a good idea. If you have moths, then the spinosad should help but you need to spray it many times (something like six times over the season) from petal fall on.

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#133

Scott, thanks for your well thought out and written response. I didn’t want to use something so toxic. I will try surround at petal fall.

I will try your other suggestions too.

I don’t think I have other issues as far as insects. Well aphids. But I am managing them.
The diseases are leaf curl and rust.

Thank you again! CC

#134

Scott have you heard of the Bonide product " Fruit Tree & Plant Guard"? I have been using this one for some years with good success. It is a different chemical than Captan ( that smells horrible).

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#135

Yes I think that is the newer version of the Bonide spray above? All of these have general bug poisons in them which I don’t use so I don’t follow these sprays too carefully.

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#136

I appreciate the info. I had used this for some years. I switched this year to something “organic”.

Help with cherry tree in zone 7
#137

Hey Scott,

A few more questions for you on this :slight_smile: Are you using Indar for brown rot in every tank of Surround? Roughly how many sprays of Indar do you do total in a season? I’ve seen a couple places recommending spraying for brown rot a month before harvest, but I have some new trees that I don’t really know when to expect their harvest. I had brown rot on the few Indian Free peaches I got last year, and the tree also has brown dieback at most pruning wounds which I think may be related. I’m planning to use Bonide Infuse for this purpose. I have given the tree one spray of Lime Sulfur early in the year, but not sure I want to do multiple rounds of it. In terms of the danger to the applicator it seems to me that a non-organic fungicide might actually be safer than the organic but highly caustic lime sulfur.

Regarding Spinosad vs Pyrethrin - am I understanding right that Spinosad mainly targets insects feeding on the sprayed tree and that’s why it’s lower impact vs Pyrethrin killing anything that might wander onto the sprayed tree (including beneficials coming to eat my pests)? I released a load of beneficials - assassin bugs, mantids, lacewings, and ladybugs - in my war on pest terror this year, and I am feeling tempted to use pyrethrin on stinkbugs and others that are coming in, but I imagine it could also be counter productive on the beneficials.

**I just read your comment re: beneficials not working well in small yards. That seems reasonable as I see very little of them after released. In my two year sample size, this year we seem to be doing a lot better on aphids attacking flowers at least. They started to show up on my lupines and a day later they were all gone. As for the bugs that affect my trees, not sure there’s any difference there.

#138

Yes I use Indar in every tank. I find that being very diligent early in the year pays off with little need to spray near harvest. Last year for example my last spray of the year was in June. I had no brown rot other than on a few late fruits. In retrospect I probably should have done one later spray. I don’t like spraying anywhere near harvest though.

Yes spinosad is relatively more targeted. It also lasts longer, pyrethrin is not active for long at all. I have a ton of beneficial insects and for that reason alone would never use pyrethrin.

Re: beneficials, I didn’t have luck with the ones I bought and released, but over the years I have amassed a huge ladybug population which pretty much cleans up on the aphids. Only the black cherry aphids are beyond their control. Right now I have a lot of rosy apple aphids but I see masses of ladybug eggs and nymphs and in a few weeks there will be very few aphids left. They also really take care of the green plum aphids. I also have a large spider population, all different kinds of spiders.

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#139

@scottfsmith does sulfur or lime sulfur have any effect in treating bacterial leaf spot or preventing bacterial diseases in general? Or is it only effective as a fungicide?

Thanks

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#140

I don’t think it helps at all based on some studies I look at some time ago.

#141

Great post @scottfsmith such a detailed description of what you do when.

There doesn’t appear to be a Bookmark function here. I took a screen shot and saved so I can find the thread again.

One thing I don’t see here specifically is fall treatment. Since we are going into fall now, I’m wondering what should be done after leaf fall I assume.

Also I am thinking if manually removing the rest of my trees leaves after I see about 50% leaf drop. Living near the Gulf of Mexico the trees often don’t drop all of their leaves until spring bud swell.

I think I want to defoliate and clean up my yard then spray for whatever makes sense on the trees and ground.

Recommendations?

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#142

Next to the Reply button there are three dots, …, click on that and there is a bookmark option.

4 Likes
#143

Great…

Now I know. Thanks

#144

Anyone have a good source for lime sulfur these days? I am in need of it for grape vines at a new location and plan to also use it on some other apple trees as a dormant spray. Note the soil here is alkaline and I’ve read that maybe sulfur would be a poor choice? The grapes had quite the infection last year.

#145

I believe all the ag based lime-sulfur has been taken off the market due to insurance issues. Unless you are looking for commercial ag quantity. However lime-sulfur is still sold as a pet spray/dip in higher concentration than the old ag/garden stuff. You can buy that and calculate the proper dilution to get to the old garden spray level.

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#146

It was available on Amazon the last thread I checked.

#147

Arbico still has it but you need to call to order.

Keystone is selling on eBay as well:

The pet dip is the same concentration if I recall from past threads. It uses a different notion of concentration on the label so appears more concentrated.

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#148
#149

Regular wettable sulfur will lower pH (it is acidic). Lime-sulfur has a high pH around 10.5 and will raise soil pH. My understanding is that both will not change soil pH long term, but will in the short term.

Alkalinity is different than pH (but related). My soil is alkaline (lots of calcium carbonate) and so it is very hard to lower pH. Low alkalinity but high pH soil you can easily lower pH.

I also read that lime-sulfur is safer for the plants than regular sulfur (which is why people add lime) - I have no idea how true or not this is and would love to find out, but can’t seem to find any sources on it.

I have a pear blister mite problem and plan to spray sulfur, but have heard from different sources that lime-sulfur is better or sulfur is better… Anyone know?

#150

Lime sulfur is considered better for mites but I have had both work well in my orchard. These days I use lime sulfur because it also works on other things in a delayed dormant spray. Sulfur you can spray later if you didn’t hit the mites early.