Hey all, I have a Macoun tree that I planted last year. When I got it in the ground I noticed it didn’t have a lot of small branches (feathers) on the lower trunk. It had a few branches on the top side of the whip, but that was about it.
This year, while all our new trees aren’t fully awake yet, I’ve noticed the Macoun hasn’t put out much new trunk growth, but it has pushed out some little branches out the top of the tree.
Is Macoun a type of tree that doesn’t like to produce lateral scaffolds, and tends to a more upright habit? If so, how can one train a tree like that? Does pruning help shape it better? Also, Liberty, which we also have, is a Macoun offspring. Does it have this same growing habit?
I don’t have a macoun, but my Liberty does seem to grow like that and was similar to yours when it started. Not sure if that is just by chance or if that is typical for Liberty.
I thought Macoun was a classic New England apple- have you tasted any grown in your region?
You didn’t mention your rootstock so answering your question is difficult. I grow it on 111 and trees tend to be upright growers that are difficult to train. They don’t put out a lot of secondary wood off of scaffolds, so may benefit from cutting new growth on scaffolds back a third and then pinching new growth to favor the shoot growing in the direction of the scaffold and using a couple others to be secondary by pinching them back a few times during the growing season.
Alternatively you can just spread the scaffolds and let them grow fairly close to horizontal and let them eventually fill in. This will bring you fruit sooner. You can keep some temporary scaffolds in the mean time.
No, I haven’t tasted any Macoun’s. I got the tree based on its good reviews. I understand it doesn’t keep long and tends to drop early, but folks really like them the brief time they’re available. I liked the Mcintosh and Liberty apples we picked in this area, so I figured this variety would be a good one to have.
Anyways, to answer your other question, it is on M7 rootstock. The scaffolds that are on the tree are on the top part of the whip. They are kind of going in a lateral direction, they’re just 3-4ft above ground. Plus, it didn’t really send up a central leader when I topped it at planting, either. I can get a picture of it and post it tomorrow. I actually just came in from mulching and fertilizing some of the trees, including this one.
Is Liberty similarly unruly in your experiences? @thecityman, the Liberty is a Macoun offspring, so that might explain its growing habit.
Mine is on M7 and sounds like it was initially like yours. It didn’t have a central leader and I didn’t try to change it to central leader. I start scaffolds around 4.5’ anyhow because the deer chew off anything below that height. I never pulled branches down on that one and it naturally grew into a roundish shaped tree. I’m happy with it.
The one thing I find most striking is the unusually high number of sunken spots on the upper trunk and scaffolds. It gets maybe 2 or 3 small ones each year. I read in a Cornell post that Macoun is prone to cambium damage from drought stress and sun scald. I’m wondering if it is the former since I don’t water my trees during summer drought periods. This plus wood pecker damage seems to have turned it into a spur monster. It settled down and started over-setting earlier than any other apple I’ve planted on M7. The apples have had an amazing flavor after baking, so I recently started a few more trees.
Thanks AJ for the reply, glad to hear you’ve had a similar experience. Are you saying it kinda looks like an (large) egg on a trunk, looking at it from the side, instead of the usual Christmas tree look of a central leader?
I read on a few sites that over sets heavily, and you got to brutally thin it early. Does it go biennial on you? How long did yours take to produce? Does your tree drop fruit early?
Incidentally, we have high deer pressure here, but I enclose each of our trees with fencing.
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:7, topic:10565, full:true”]
Are you saying it kinda looks like an (large) egg on a trunk, looking at it from the side, instead of the usual Christmas tree look of a central leader? [/quote]Something like this. Notice it doesn’t have a central leader. http://www.barbkermisdesigns.com/Treev14.jpg
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:7, topic:10565, full:true”]I read on a few sites that over sets heavily, and you got to brutally thin it early. Does it go biennial on you? [/quote]I’m not sure, but I assume it will. We haven’t had 2 back-to-back productive years in while due to polar vortex and usual spring freezes.
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:7, topic:10565, full:true”]How long did yours take to produce?
[/quote]I think it started at 3 years, but was fully settled by 5 years. I have other m7 trees are just as old and continue to put out lots of new growth despite bending branches.
[quote="subdood_ky_z6b, post:7,]Does your tree drop fruit early?[/quote] I think it did initially, but it hasn’t happened recently. Last year I was able to keep them on until they had full flavor. I had to pick them a few days earlier than planned because birds started attacking them. It was the first time I had birds attack them, but Alan mentioned that this is common with Macouns.
Thanks again for the info. You know, before I knew anything about properly trained apple trees, I always thought that’s what a ‘normal’ apple tree looked like that. That shape looks like a double leader, if there’s such a thing. I can live with it, just as long as it produces.
I have other M7 trees, King David, Pristine, Cortland. I think the Winesap we got from Lowe’s has it, but who knows, it has “semi-dwarf” stamped on it. Hope it is actually a WS. It is huge now, almost 8ft tall, but it was about 6ft when we got it last year. It has an odd shape to it as well, but I think it can be fixed as far as its habit goes.
Are you saying your other M7 trees are still putting out vegetative growth, but haven’t fruited yet?
I was curious, what is the flavor like in your opinion? I know it’s a Mac offspring, so does it taste more like it, or something else. Does it have a softer texture than most apples? About how long does it keep?
Not apple related, but I noticed that you have a Tomcot, and Harcot. Will you be getting fruit from them this year? I almost pulled the trigger on a 'cot this year, but decided we had enough fruit plants ordered for this year.
The few Macoun apples I’ve eaten were really, really great. Hard to describe, but impossible to forget. Worth sticking with until you find out how they do in your experience. Firm, close-grained, juicy, sweet/sharp with very complex flavor. As good or better than Liberty at its best, and given how much I like our Libs when they are good that’s saying something. Good luck and have fun!
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:9, topic:10565”]
Are you saying your other M7 trees are still putting out vegetative growth, but haven’t fruited yet?
[/quote]No, they have been producing. They just have more vegetative growth that needs to be removed each year to maintain size and canopy density. I would say they are about normal in this respect. The Macoun has no vegetative growth and is smaller in size. This, I believe, is mostly due to the tree damage, which puts tree in full reproductive mode.
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:9, topic:10565”]
I was curious, what is the flavor like in your opinion? I know it’s a Mac offspring, so does it taste more like it, or something else. Does it have a softer texture than most apples? About how long does it keep?
[/quote]It isn’t soft like a mac. It is a great baking apple. It softens exactly when you want it to while still holding shape. The flavor is more complex than a mac and is more noticeable after baking. For me It keeps about 3 months in regular cold storage. Quality degrades after that. I suppose it could be kept longer with special treatment.
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:9, topic:10565”]
Not apple related, but I noticed that you have a Tomcot, and Harcot. Will you be getting fruit from them this year?
[/quote]They didn’t survive the previous brutal winter, so I started over again with a new strategy. Apricots are exceptionally hard to keep alive at my location. I’ve been thinking about giving up on them.
Well, it sounds like a wonderful apple, can’t wait to get some from our tree. It’ll just look different than the other trees, which, again, I don’t mind.
Do you find that the fruit off your M7 trees are smaller than normal? I had read that about this rootstock. And, do you have these trees supported?
Sorry to hear about your 'cots. I remember @alan saying they don’t do well in your area, that is, have a tendency to just croak for no real reason.
Like I said earlier, I really wanted to try some apricots, but even peaches are iffy here as far as their early blooms go, and 'cots would be nigh impossible, so I thought why get a tree that won’t produce most years? But, I did add a Contender and Blushingstar peach this year. Our “orchard” is mostly apples, and some pears and peaches, and we have various berry plants going.
If you want branches lower, try the notching technique. Now is the time to do that. The only reason not to do it is if fire blight is real problem in your area. I was just telling you what I did with mine.
[quote=“subdood_ky_z6b, post:12, topic:10565”]
Do you find that the fruit off your M7 trees are smaller than normal? I had read that about this rootstock. And, do you have these trees supported?
[/quote]I don’t have the same varieties on other rootstocks, so I can’t compare. They seem normal size to me. Of course, they will be smaller if they aren’t thinned.
I have a Macoun on M-111 and it’s growth is similar. Mine looks a bit like a chandelier - lateral arms radiating out from the trunk for 2 feet or so, then turning straight up like candles. I’m having trouble getting blooms or fruit off the damn thing!
Regarding thinning and bi-annual bearing: I’ve never had a issue because I never seem to get much fruit off of it. Last year I got nothing (freeze damage), but in few previous years I only got a few apples off the entire tree. Strangely, they seem to be clustered in the same area - I’d have 3 apples jammed together on one side of the tree and 3 or 4 clustered together on the other side of the tree and nothing in between. And when I say “clustered together” I mean they were touching one and other!
Unfortunately, I’ve never a great tasting apple off my tree. Partially it’s because I only get a few fruit per year, and partially it’s because I don’t think I’m picking at the optimal time (I’m only at the orchard on weekends). Even though it’s a New England favorite, I decided to try it here in western Northern Virginia because it was my all time favorite apple while growing up in Upstate NY.
The way you manage Macoun is to get fruit on less vigorous shoots the second year, so you rotate them in and out, almost like peaches- except on a 2-year cycle instead of one. You remove the two year shoots after harvest or during winter to allow the previous seasons shoots to take their place. It is the older spur wood that tends to be very biennial.
Even when managed well, there will be off years but rotating shoots helps a lot and they produce larger, better apples than weaker old spurs- because the leaves on the new wood in front sends them energy.
Actually many varieties produce their best apples on 2nd year shoots, but Macoun is more limited to this route of production than other varieties.
My tree has a bunch of shoots going straight up and not much else happening (if I recall correctly, I’ll verify this weekend). Should I expect this year’s growth to fill in the open spaces in the tree? If I remember correctly, the new growth always grows straight up and is two feet tall by seasons end.
So I’m not sure what to do to get the tree to behave better. Should I remove every other (very tall) shoot now in the hopes of new growth becoming next year’s bearing wood?
Thanks @alan, and @AJfromElmiraNY for the info. It sounds like Macoun isn’t a tree for a newbie grower like me, but I’ll do what I can. Like I promised a couple days ago, I’ll post some pics of it soon.
I did read about one of the parents of the variety, Jersey Black. It appears to have this upright habit. I imagine this behavior doesn’t come from the McIntosh’s side.
Anytime all the annual wood is excessively vigorous I will pull a good amount of it to horizontal, taping it to another scaffold or secondary. This inevitably leads to the creation of flower buds and once a tree gets into fruiting mode it tends to calm down some and the method I describe will work. Some shoots will be too long and thick and those are removed but enough less vigorous shoots should form to fill the tree with fruiting shoots.
Any tree that produces excessively upright and vigorous shoots can be calmed down by pulling them to horizontal or even below, into a weep. Same thing for Euro plums. When you are first learning about this stuff it is good to wait until growth reveals flower buds to prune, sometimes, so you can see before you prune where the flowers are forming.
The less complicated solution that sometimes works well is to score the trunk when trees are in about their 2nd or 3rd week of growth. This temporarily cuts off some of the sap flow from the roots so the tree is forced to use it’s energy to produce fruit- much as a dwarf rootstock does. The first year it coaxes the tree to form flower buds for fruit the next.
I think I might have asked about your Macoun in another thread, but how old is your tree? Isn’t a M7 tree? Do you have any pics of them?
It is about 10-12 years old. I got it from a local farm supply on clearance. The nursery website listed m7 for semi-dwarfs, so I’m assuming that is what is.
This is the tree with about 1/4 of the crop still hanging. I have never thinned it and this year it is just as loaded as last.
