I’ve just bought 2 bottle of chemicals for spring spraying. I just need words from the experienced user(s) that these 2 products can be mixed together (with recommended water) for dormant/delayed dormant spray on apples, pears and peaches as a general coverage/dragnet.
Please opinate. Thanks for your help.
I’m not sure if those two can be used together but last year I sprayed that same dormant oil just prior to bud break and then sprayed immunox later with the Bonide sticker and didn’t have any diease issues. My problems were more with insects than disease.
Yes, they can be sprayed together.
Mike
Since it’s new to me, how effective is it? I see that it’s a fungicide property. Can I get away with just this combo as insect control as well? At least in the tree dormant stage?
Tom
Immunox is a fungicide and will not provide any insect control. Look at the label to see at what stage the application of Immunox will work for those fungal issues you are dealing with. This early in the year I use copper (Kocide 3000) and Lime-Sulfur with the oil.
The oil component is the part of your combo which will deal with the insect mitigation. It will not replace insect pest sprays that may be needed later in the year (plum curculio, codling moth, etc.)
Mike
Tom,
As Mike points out, they can be mixed together, but there is no reason to spray the Immunox for a dormant/delayed dormant spray for a couple reasons.
First, practically speaking, there is little risk of apple scab at the delayed dormant stage. Technically you could start spraying at green tip, but that’s generally earlier than ascospore release.
Secondly, Immunox is a locally systemic fungicide, which means it’s absorbed in the leaf tissue. There is so little leaf tissue even at green tip, you don’t get much bang for your buck.
There is no reason to use it for a dormant/delayed dormant on peaches either. The only peach disease to be concerned about in the dormant season is leaf curl, which Immunox isn’t labeled for.
You have some good products there, but you’ll probably want to wait on the Immunox to use it when you can get some good out of it.
The oil is good for a dormant/delayed dormant spray.
Thank you for the explanation. Now that I should hold off the Immunox until leaf out.
So dormant oil/horticultural oil are used during Dormant and Delay Dormant stages only. Is my understand correct?
Tom,
I just sprayed copper to all my stone fruits last night all flowers buds about to open. I will spray Spec. Once and done after petals fall and every two weeks plus re-spray after raining days and stop 30 days before harvest. I don’t have rot here in Omaha so no immunox for me.
Tony
I have another question. Have anyone used “Ortho Fruit Tree Spray”? The instruction says it has fungicide and insecticide property in one bottle…
Looking into the Active Ingredients table from this bottle, does it sounds like comprehensive coverage for diseases and insects? Though I have no clue what those chemicals are for except the Neem Oil portion! Probably compatible with Horticultural Oil+Immunox? I’m still learning here, please let me know if I’m way out!
Pyrethrins ------------------------------------------------------------- 0.25%
Piperonyl Butoxide ------------------------------------------------- 2.50%
Clarified Hydrophobic Extracted of Neem Oil ----------------70.00%
Other Ingredients ----------------------------------------------------27.25%
Tom,
The horticultural oil you have can be sprayed when trees are dormant, or when they leaf out. Generally speaking most people use it during the dormant season. If used during the growing season, make sure you use half the dose, or it may burn the foliage.
The Ortho Fruit Tree Spray may work for you, if you have minor pest pressure. The insecticide component (pyrethrin) is a naturally occurring compound which breaks down very quickly, so it doesn’t offer much residual control.
Many people use a product called Triazicide Once and Done (liquid concentrate). I think it would do a better job for you than the Ortho.
Olpea,
Thanks for patiently explained that to my knuckle head. It’s confusing with so many names and processes/timings to remember.
So that if I used the Ortho Fruit Tree Spray then I don’t have to use the Horticultural Oil and the Immunox, right? Likewise, if I used the latter, than I don’t have to use the Ortho Fruit Tree Spray? And both approaches are still to be followed up with Triazicide Once and Done?
Still trying to sort out my understanding before any real chemical application…
Tom
Tom,
Sorry I’m so late getting back to this thread. There is so much activity on this forum right now, it’s easy to miss a thread.
If your goal is using least impact methods of pest control, I might recommend you look into what pests most commonly affect your area (I don’t know what area your orchard is in.) This forum is would be a good resource to research common pests for your area.
Of course you can also wait and see what pests affect your specific trees. You will of course lose some of your harvests, but this is the most precise method to determine what you will be dealing with.
Once you determine your pests, you can much more specifically determine what you want to use to control them.
If your goal is to start harvesting fruit as soon as possible, then you can start preemptive measures to control your pests, but I would still recommend you determine what pests are common for your area and the types of fruit you are growing. There is no sense in spraying for pests you don’t have.
Regarding the more specific questions you asked:
The horticultural oil, Ortho, and Immunox are all really designed to fight different pests.
Horticultural oil is best for small sucking insects like pear psylla, mites, aphids, etc. It has very low activity against what are considered major pests (things which produce wormy fruit) of most common fruit trees.
The Immunox is strictly a fungicide. It provides good control against some fungal pests, but no activity against insects.
The Ortho product is an insecticide to control more major pests, but the neem oil is also an insecticide, but has some activity against minor fungii. The Ortho product is designed to have low environmental impact, however because it breaks down rapidly may not offer satisfactory control, depending on your pest pressure and tolerance for insect damage.
I would encourage you to continue asking questions on this forum. I know it can seem overwhelming at first, but you’ll soon learn what pests you have to deal with and how you want to treat them.
I have more questions that need opinions from this community’s experts!
I bought a bottle of Spectracide “Triazicide Insect Killer For Lawns & Landscapes” from a local big box. A week later I found another version of Spectracide “Triazicide Insect Killer Once and Done!” at another big box.
I looked and compared the ingredients from these bottles and they both have the exact listed ingredients:
Gamma Cyhalothrine … 0.08%
Other Ingredients …99.92%
They’re the same thing, aren’t they? Even though the big label in one is “Triazicide Insect Killer For Lawns & Landscapes” and the other one is “Triazicide Insect Killer Once and Done!”
*** Question #1: What are the ingredients listed on YOUR bottle of “Once & Done”?
To compound my confusion further, yesterday, I’ve found yet another version of Spectracide “Triazicide Insect Killer For Trees & Shrubs”.This bottle listed Imidacloprid @ 1.47% and the usual Other Ingredients @ 98.53%. But it’s labeled as “For Trees & Shrubs”!
*** Question #2: Is this last bottle inter-usable with the first two at all?
I’m very confused!
Tom, I believe Triazicide Insect Killer For Lawns & Landscapes is the 2016 version of the Once and Done. The ingredients and everything else appear to be the same. The 2016 version,like Once and Done is labeled for use on all types of fruit trees. The Once and Done bottle is likely at least a year old and thus probably has lost its potency so I would recommend you get the one for Lawns and Landscapes.
The Trees and Shrubs spray it totally different product, Lawns & Landscapes is probably what you should get.
That meant I got the right stuff for fruit tree then? But what good is “The Trees and Shrubs” for, none-fruit trees?
Tom
Tom, that stuff for lawn and landscape is the same thing…I posted about the exact same thing last year…it is usually sold in a hose end sprayer container. You could do the appropriate math and possibly save some cash…when I saw it I did the mental math (rough) and given it’s % of Gamma Cyhalothrin / volume it was significantly cheaper…at that time, as it was on sale. The amount of active ingredient in the Spectracide product is ridiculously small, however I think Olpea and some others did the math last year and it roughly equaled the low end spray recommendations of the commercial Gamma Cyhalothrin.
I, for one, don’t believe a bit of it. The efficacy charts are very clear on Gamma C’s effectiveness (very good), yet the Spectracide product is just terrible in it’s actual effectiveness. I have no idea why this is, other than to guess that it contains old, less effective product OR perhaps they are simply lying about the contents. This opinion of mine has been shared by scores of folks here, but there are also those that think it’s great. Those folks that think it’s great never sprayed anything better, I can assure you. It’s a lame product and Carbaryl will provide exponentially better results as a single spray item, and it too is marginal.
Everything Olpea said regarding the earlier posts were spot on, except he didn’t use as strong of wording as I will (because he’s a gentler guy). The oil is great for a dormant spray…after that it’s useless. As he said, it’s good for “small” sucking insects…that means tiny ones no bigger than an aphid…after that…it’s useless. which is why it is good as a dormant spray, and that’s about all (for tree fruit). I DO spray oil BTW…as a dormant spray only. I also spray Immunox (myclobutanil) as an additive fungicide…not as a base, it simply does not possess the characteristics or storability to make it a suitable base fungicide, whether for the home or even commercial grower.
OTC sprays labeled for fruit trees and effective for sucking insects amount to Malathion…and thats pretty much it, unless I’m forgetting something.
I don’t know what the PC pressure is in Illinois, and I’m guessing maybe not as bad as here in Maryland, but here…Once and Done is a very, very bad joke.
Save your money and the hassle and get some Imidan if you want effective insect control.
Get some Captan to go along with your Immunox…they can be sprayed together…you can spray all 3 together if you want (and is actually suggested). It IS true, Imidan stinks to high Hell, there’s no getting around it, so does Malathion to a lesser degree…sort of.
My fruit is absolutely and impeccably pristine in a hell hole of an insect and fungicide environment.
It wasn’t that way when I messed around with that spectracide junk, even when spraying at 400% the recommended rate.
IF you absolutely must spray an OTC single spray, then choose Malathion and spray it at 150% minimum. That’s my non-legally supported advice.
I remember your beautiful espalier apples (I think it was you). They are way too pretty and nice to sacrifice. It’s worth getting some tasty picture-perfect fruit…for the sake of your hard work and effort…and cost, and even from an environmental perspective.
I am using up my last stocks of Ortho Flower Fruit and Vegetable Insect Killer Concentrate (Acetamiprid, .4 percent) and old-formulation Sevin (Carbaryl) for insect control this year.
I read on the label that Bonide All-seasons Oil Spray can be applied to control the “first flight” of coddling moth, so can I use that to at least “stretch” my other insecticides?
I don’t know my biofix from my backside, I am still trying to figure out what an “instar” is. I have access to National Weather Service climate data for my town, but I am baffled on how to do the degree-day calculations – relative to what baseline, and do I have to write a computer program to calculate from only those days above baseline during the current cool weather where it is dipping into the low 30’s in April?
I am in Northeast Wisconsin. Any suggestion or hints on this?
I never heard of oil for codling moth… unless you spray it as it flies by. Oil will kill by suffocating eggs or bugs on the trees or branches. I think codling moth needs a “poison”
I start spray scheds when the forsythias bloom and I wait for insecticides until after petal fall. Fungicides start before petal fall
Mike
In Cornell commercial guidelines they recommend using a scab fungicide somewhere from green tip to tight cluster and if I’m putting down oil anyway it seems like a reasonable thing to add myclobutanil.
Here’s something from UMass that supports what you wrote partially but not whole heartedly.
"An orchard with no scab on the orchard floor, and no sources of scab within 100 ft., has a very low risk of scab infections early in the season. Research out of the University of New Hampshire has demonstrated that in these low-inoculum blocks, the first scab fungicide does not need to be applied before pink, or until the first three infection periods have occurred, whichever comes first. This may save one or more fungicide applications in the block
This is a radical departure from the recommendation that fungicide applications should start as soon as green tissue appears on the apple tree. After all, it is early-season infections that have the best chance of exploding into significant scab problems. And with increasing resistance to the most effective eradicant fungicides, the sterol inhibitors, an epidemic that does get started will be more difficult to stop. We recommend that growers use the delay approach conservatively. Rather than delaying until pink, or until the first three infection periods, delay until tight cluster, or the first two infection periods."
From Cornell, (1) “From Pink bud to Petal Fall we get major spore releases while the green tissue is expanding and this means that the target on which the apple scab fungus ascospores can land on to infect is increasing rapidly,”’
Which suggests that an app at tight cluster would still be offering protection a couple days later when pink begins to show.
