MM111 or Bud-9?

I believe you have to use stronger stakes to support b9. Looks like your second picture shows a solid metal stake, and it may work.

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Grafting is not so much a hobby in itself as a tool to achieve your hobby goals. At some point you just want fruit and best way to get it is to spend a little time grafting.

You don’t plan to become a grafter. You plan to grow fruit and you have some kind of time or space limitation. Sometimes the only way to overcome that limit is to graft.

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Yeah, I remember you saying that and though you may change your mind as you develop a more intimate relationship with your trees and become more knowledgeable about varieties to grow, you may expand your interests, but even if you don’t, this is a group discussion and others might be interested in a grafters perspective.

I didn’t start out being a grafter myself. However, when I grew varieties that turned out not to taste very good to me, I changed. The first apple tree I hated was a certain DRV no one grows anymore that I planted at the birth of my son. In spite of the sentimental value I decided to cut it down but left a 3’ tall stump. Watersprouts shot up the next season and I decided to leave the stump and graft it over the following spring. In only two years the tree was bearing fruit of a much better tasting variety and a lot of it. All that root pushed new growth much, much faster than a new sapling would.

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If you have a deer issue, I’d lean away from the B9 rootstock. Even if you stake it better, you may have to extend your fence to prevent the deer from reaching the branches of a low canopy dwarf tree at all. If for no other reason, than because unlike a tree on a more vigorous rootstock a weak growing tree will take a long time to recover / regrow after a deer raid ( yound apple wood is sweet), .

So, if you’re fine with pruning , I’d go with Alan’s suggestion to bend the branches (higher up in this thread). A tree on M111 can be kept much lower than advertised and you can get it broad quite quickly which will keep the deer on the perimeter and prevent substantial damage even with no fencing. Any lost branches will regrow easily, even in a single season.
For illustration, here’s our 12 y.o. Gravenstein on an Antonovka seedling. It should reach full height and it is trying to, but my partner has made it his project and prunes it low so that I would be able to pick it from the ground without help or a pole picker, because I wasn’t able to use even that before my last surgery. It is now 3m tall (minus those two top sprouts) and about 6m wide.


In this case the bending happened naturally as the apples are heavy.

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@Bigmike1116 … I have my Novamac on B9 espellar located on the south side of the house just off a high brick wall… and near my HVAC system… which kicks on and off as needed…

Out in my orchard deer pressure… for sure… but my Novamac located there is not protected at all and no deer have bothered it.

They just will not come that close to the house.

If you had a primo location like that… that would be nice.

I have a fig, mulberry and a cherry tree along that same south wall… no deer problems with any of those.

TNHunter

I have a new block that i am not going to fence… i think im going to go with these. $1.15 each… i think its what Cliff uses in his orchard…at least they look like it. He puts them at the top of young trees i think.

image

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This is what I need for my rascally wabbit problem.

All my M111 rootstock trees were not blown over or leaning after this huge rain and wind storm we had ( 45-80 mph wind gusts). I have good luck with the M111 rootstocks.
Lots of other trees and branches down from regular trees. I was lucky with my fruit trees.

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I don’t want to get too much into this, but I’m physically incapable of grafting due to a genetic neurological condition that inhibits fine motor skills (via uncontrolled and sporadic tremors) from an unsupported hand. That’s also why I can’t use a pole mounted harvester to get high reaching fruit. One day I might try and practice when I have a lot of Scion wood of my own and see if I can find a method that works for me, but I don’t expect to be trying this anytime soon, if at all.

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I fence each individual tree with hardware cloth. That’s 4 and 1/2 ft tall. The hardware cloth prevents them from placing a hoof in the fence to reach higher, and the diameter is small enough that they can’t jump The ring to eat from the inside. It’s worked very well for me so far on my current fruit and nut trees like jujubes, persimmons, and walnut trees.

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Well, then, I guess you’ve ticked all the boxes for why you want B9 and don’t need M111.
Personally, I’d still plant one spare tree on M111, just in case, if you have the space. :wink: A variable may change here and there over 10 years, like the weather acting out, or frequency of droughts,etc. Worst case: you take it out if it doesn’t suit you…

if I do end up with b9, I will look up how to properly stake it. the pictures were just demonstrating how I cage individual trees to prevent deer damage.

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I think this is probably the way I will go. maybe I’ll do the pollen infertile types on b9 and my primary pollinator on M111 and then just see if I am capable of pruning the M111 to a reasonable height.

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I agree with you. I believe he will need a stronger stake for them all. I see the metal post stake in the one pic. Is that to stake the tree, or the cage , or both?
I have had some crooked trunks on the fruit trees I have purchased over the years. I find it helpful to stake them right away to try and straighten the trunks out as much I can. I believe it helps to straighten them up easier since they are pretty flexible at that point of growing. I have had three and four stakes on a few trees early on to straighten the trunks. They all look really good now. I credit that to being staked and staightened out early on.

Already answered.

Its looking like its B9, if B9 or MM111 are your only choices. B9 fits your height requirement. Happy growing :+1:

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I agree, happy growing. It can be trial an error growing fruit.

@Bigmike1116 … i have really enjoyed working with my Novamac / espellar on B9.

My top two scaffold branches are below chest high… which makes everything so easy… pruning, thinning, inspection fruit and tree health, harvesting… monitoring CM traps, etc.

Mine is planted in a half whisky barrell and I water it once a week on fridays (4 gal) if we have had no rain.

Mine is not staked… but with the espellar setup it is not very tall and the scaffold branches are supported (with raspberry stakes)… The trunk is quite short and stout… it does not look or feel like it needs staking.

If you let it grow and trained it with normal apple pruning and shaping… it might get quite a bit taller… but something like a 6ft TPost should surly support it well.

Now that I have tried espellar… I think I will always have one or two trees at least setup like that. It makes everything so simple and easy. It is a joy to work with.

Good luck to you !

TNHunter

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Here the espaliers I manage almost never produce fruit for humans. The fruit in that form is too difficult for many people to protect from critters. Most of my customers are not willing to kill mammal pests larger than rats, and if the “rats” have stripes and answer to Alvin, forget it.

Trees against walls create a myriad of problems, especially leaping squirrels, but you probably could train B-9 to a 10’ height with only a straight trunk on the bottom 5’ or so and grow it in the open while otherwise pruning it to a 2D type shape.

I wonder what % of forum members have to deal with coons, squirrels and deer, but aren’t willing to or able to control them lethally. The only way I can supply my customers in this situation with dependable harvests is by planting trees that can be baffled and sometimes also netted. The baffles need to protect the bottom 5’ of trees.

If you want to prune less, get early fruit but also have a free-standing tree, I recommend something of the vigor of 26. It can often eventually stand on its own roots but bears earlier and requires much less pruning than 111 or even 7. It’s also very easy to maintain within a narrow space as a short tree.

All on the approved eating list here.

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