I wonder if gibberellic acid or other auxins could be applied to a female mulberry to produce male flowers, it could be very useful for breeding
2 Likes
WHA??? a 308 Chromosome number Morus nigra!? They can get that high?
If so what’s stopping them from crossing with Jackfruits or at least being graft compatible. Surely your can atleast try some intergeneric crosses no?
Crazy how chromosome numbers even stacked that high.
Fantastic Question! I wonder if grafting male branches into female trees & Vice versa can achieve the same thing without needing gibberellic acid?
Auxins can be trained by summer pruning & bending branches sideway so that they shift hormonal balance towards fruiting instead of vegetative growth
1 Like
Those male trees would contribute unknown fruit quality to the offspring and would thus be far less valuable for breeding.
If a known high quality female could be forced to produce male pollen then we know the offspring would have high quality female fruits on both sides of the breeding line
There is nothing stopping you from grafting a male onto a female
1 Like
Who else do you breed for fruit quality? Do we just make the good cultivar to convert into a Male flowers (Apparently it happens occasioanlly, some wild trees shift).
And what about mentor grafting onto the young hybrid seedlings?
1 Like
Like with Persimmons, some prefer to breed exclusively with pollen from cosexual/monoecious/hermaphrodite trees that bear good fruits (a la ‘Early Golden’ in the case of Diospyros). I posted about my mulberry experiments not too long ago here:
To another point, I don’t believe having similar chromosome numbers is enough to make different species compatible (every Morus nigra is 22n, with some speculating it’s actually just a highly polyploid descendent of M. alba). The Jackfruit in my friend’s greenhouse has yet to produce any unusual seedlings at least (quite a few mulberries around), but maybe I’ll try that experiment just for the hell of it next year - or if someone further north wouldn’t mind providing the pollen, mulb season is just about over in Florida.
2 Likes
Perhaps, I think Mulberry pollen should be able to remian viable after freezing but I couldn’t found enough pollen to collect, mostly just female trees cuz the male ones were out of reach or hidden in the forrest.
If you do store pollen via freezing, mix it with all kinds of Morus spp. pollens you can get & all kinds of Artocarpus spp. pollen you can get & then apply to both plants flowers. This way you can up your chances of getting a cross, also grafting mulberry scions onto jackfruit & viceversa will also additionally increase chances (Especially if your grafting hybrid Jackfruit seedlings scions onto mature mulberries rootstock & hybrid Mulberry seedlings scions onto mature jackfruit rootstock).
Would mulberries work like how figs work (like how the edible caprifig trait is passed to 100% of its caprifig offspring, and how if two edible caprifigs are crossed 100% of the offspring are edible caprifigs), since they are partly related? I just found a mulberry that has male and female flowers, would it work the same?
1 Like
In my mind that’s an undesirable trait because it would possibly pass on the hermaphroditic trait.
You would ideally want your mulberry to be a pure female
I don’t think ANYTHING works like figs
1 Like
Too bad. I was thinking it would be usefull if it did work that way and have the male trees be able to pruduce edible fruit with in using its pollen for breeding half the offspring female and half the males that also produce fruit.
Wow! That’s a cool trait, both male & female. Where did you find that tree?
Why? That hermaphroditic trait sound useful for when there’s no male around.
Plus have you tried eating the male flowers? Some foragers say they taste good in salads but I’ve never tried it cuz I never found it in pea season.
1 Like
I found it out in one of our pastures.
1 Like
Female mulberries produce fruits without requiring pollination, pollination makes them worse if anything.
Never tasted a male flower but they taste worse than female fruits so the less male flowers the better
If you can’t force male blooms on pure females with known fruit quality you could argue a tree that is almost entirely female with just a few male flowers (assuming it has high fruit quality) is a good quality
1 Like
Nice! Definetly save seeds from that one.
Altho I wonder if someone grafted a male branch into a female tree. I was thinking of doing that to solve the fertilization issue, same with American Persimmons that require both Male & Female Trees.
Seriously? For all Mulberry Species (Morus spp.)? Or is the parthenocarpic trait found in Cultivated Mulberries strains?
??? I’m confused, male flowers don’t make fruit? Oh wait are you saying the actuall individual flower has both parts, not just both parts on the same tree???
Male flowers don’t make fruit. Some plants need male flowers to pollinate the female flowers to make fruit. Mulberries do not. Pollinated mulberry fruits have seeds, where as parthenocarpic (unpollinated) fruits do not. For eatting purposes, seeds are annoying.
I’m sure there is a few out there that do not have parthenocarpic fruit. But the majority of mulberries that are used for commercial or backyard growing are (M. nigra, macroura, rubra, alba etc). Other than for breeding purposes, there is usually no need for male flowered mulberries.
2 Likes
Unpollinated mulberries don’t even have the seed shell?
No, it wasn’t grafted. It’s a small tree and I remember it not being there.
Seriosly??? I’ve almost never noticed the seeds in mulberries unlike bigseed Raspberries. Plus just like Figs seeds add the crunch.
Ah I see Parthenocarpic mulberries are truly seedless & not self-fertilized empty seeds right?
I see, well I do want to make a Mulberry landrace so I’m collecting as much Morus diversity as I can. Do you know any Mulberry bred for the Edible Leaves? I’ve heard Morus rubra was the best species for edible mulberry greens.
I wonder if it also has the best tasting male flowers?
Idk, that’s a good question tho!
1 Like
I’ve found unviable “seeds” in unpollinated mulberries before, but you have to really look for them. They are smaller & softer than the true seeds with fertilized embryos.
Co-sexual // Monoecious (“hermaphrodite”) tendencies aren’t unheard of, especially in the native Morus rubra. I found a tree with both male & female flowers this Spring that I’m using for breeding purposes.
‘Pithlachocco Two-Spirit Grande’ (the “Father Fruit”):
9 Likes
@Professor_Porcupine The folks at Savanna Institute are working with ‘forage’ mulberry selections, among other things. Eliza Greenman would be my first contact for more info: https://www.savannainstitute.org/staff-eliza-greenman/
5 Likes
I am confused about the self fertility. I have 3 different mulberry cultivars (Illinois Everbearing, Mulle, Shin-Tso) and no male trees around, yet all of them have seeds inside. If they were truly parthenocarpic, they shouldn‘t have seeds, right?