Nice!
quite commendable your perseverance with simmons in this part of the southwest, which is hands-down the most challenging! Have to thank you for the most valuable hands-on experience you just posted(and hopefully will continue to post), as have met a number of orchardists in vegas but with jjust the few paragraphs you posted-- can already conclude you have the widest āvocabularyā when it comes to 'simmons 
our fuyuās foliage didnāt get parched, but that was because totally shielded from direct sunlight 9 AM to 3 PM. The fruits were tiny, as a result, and birds made short work of the few tiny fruits produced. Sadly had to give it up as too much trouble and the fuyus shipped from california are so much better in size and overall quality, and quite cheap.
can almost predict you will get 200 fruits this year, and double or triple that as your trees get bigger and gets more sunlight on their solar panels.
btw, pm us if you intend to top-work a few more cultivars to your juju trees. We gladly hold pro-bono grafting sessions around town and at school gardens as āpublic serviceā. Or drop off some budwood if you are already handy with grafting
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Wow thatās really cool of you to teach grafting! I shared a couple of my grafting tricks on @BobVance
2022 jujube thread if itās of any value. Hereās the link: Jujube 2022 - #78 by snowjunky
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i like it! And yes, grafting is an art and science so enjoy sharing with others, especially the younger generations nowadays who seem to be more preoccupied with tech/virtual reality than with ādown-to-earthā endeavors
Thank you @jujubemulberry . Iām happy to contribute a little bit. You are a big reason for why I have a lot of, well, jujubes and mulberries. I own a copy of your book and have read most of your posts over the years ā a wealth of information.
I have only a few trees here and quite a bit more in Georgia, but I definitely donāt merit the title of āorchardist.ā Iāve only been growing fruit trees for the last four years or so, and have yet to do a single graft (I know I need to learn). Most of my knowledge comes from this forum, and I have little practical experience, so Iām grateful for your offer of a hands-on demonstration.
Weāll see. I tend to have a heavy hand with the pruners, and I headed off the central leader of the big Honey Jar at about 8 or 9 feet, leaving just the adjoining secondary branch at the top node uncut to try to push more lower growth. I also pruned off all but four scaffold limbs to try to shape it into a (sort-of) modified central leader configuration, but Iām still hoping that Iāll get a decent amount of fruit this year. I left the spindly Honey Jar to grow au naturelle since it needs the height more.
As for the persimmons, I didnāt know that the tough conditions here would dwarf the fruit, although it makes sense. I heard somewhere that someone had a mature non-astringent kaki of some type in a back yard in Henderson that didnāt mind the heat and produced lots of fruit, but Iāve never been able to confirm that story and in light of the evidence, it seems doubtful. Iād like to try the newer Suruga cultivar since it reportedly has very good PCNA fruit and needs a long growing season (which is one thing we definitely have here) but unless there are reports of it dealing well with our extreme temperatures, Iām not optimistic.
For now, Saijo seems to be the best bet. I am sort of speculating that the glossy nature of its leaves provides them with some sort of protection from extreme temperatures that the other varieties Iāve tried (all of which had non-glossy leaves) lack. I just hope the fruit isnāt dwarfed, as Saijo fruit is relatively small to begin with.
that bookāi cringe when find myself browsing through it, lol! Nobody needs it if you are a member here, as have pretty much posted everything here that was posted there(plus the fact that thereās a multitude of juju aficionados posting valuable info here). A couple more years and you will likely be posting insights on jujus too just as have been posting re: simmons
keep everyone here posted on Suruga/Saijo, as the species is quite a challenge. Btw, hachiya might be something you could experiment on as one of our fellow locals(Mr Kohler of youtube) posted what seems to be a sizeable unsheltered tree that is productive, seen at around 2 minutes from start of video. John commented that it is not as productive as the ones in cali, but to me it is amazing enough for having been unscathed unsheltered from vegas blazing sun all these years-- even if it never produced fruits imo.
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news about Suruga in Phoenix. It is reported to have leaf issues, but I tried it anyway. Turns out it has much worst desert heat tolerance than any other persimmon Iāve tried. Leaves are so sensitive to the dry heat even in full shade and they fall off very easily.
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Thatās interesting. In California when we had dry heat of 113 it had no effect on Suruga except for a few singed leaves. When we had 111 degrees with strong drying winds that killed two eucalyptus trees, it had no effect on Suruga except for sunburn on a few fruits.
I understand that Phoenix temps get hotter than 113 and for longer periods, but losing leaves is generally a response to lack of water. Burnt leaf edges and sunburned fruit are a response to heat if they have water. Young Asian persimmon trees with small root systems and lack of water can lose their leaves even at 100-105. Iāve never seen older trees with larger root systems and adequate water lose leaves when itās hot. Iāve seen older naturalized persimmon trees in California lose leaves when temps get above 105, because they have no water, but they come back the next year.
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I checked this thread out because I thought there were talks about new jujubes. I would never have guessed people discuss persimmons here.
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oops, my bad, i admittedly got too excited about simmons and digressedā¦
againā¦
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Thatās strange. Yes my Suruga was small as were my other persimmons. They were under the same conditions and water. It also had branch die back. I donāt remember the rootstock, but they all were in pots that first year.
Then that was the major problem. Small trees and especially those in pots donāt have the root system to soak up enough water to protect the trees. When the air temp is 110 the roots are almost 110 also. My Suruga had been in the ground for at least 10 years when it had to deal with 110+ temps.
My Izu, Early Fuyu, Hana Fuyu and Chocolate grew well in pots the first year unlike the Suruga. They had the same pots, potting soil, water and shade. The Chocolate was super strong compared to the others and the Suruga was super weak and died the next year. Maybe the Suruga was mislabeled 
? The Chocolate continues to be stronger in ground compared to the others.
My Suruga outgrew and outproduced all my other Asian persimmons.
It may be that you just got a weak little tree.
Does Suruga produce pollen for cross pollination?
Yes, it produces pollen.
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Nice, then it might be worth another try to pair up with the Chocolate.
Compared to your other persimmons does Suruga break dormancy earlier, same time or later?
My Coffee Cakeās later bud break during mini spring heatwaves = most new leaves burnt.
I never paid much attention to when anything broke dormancy in California. There was no frost issue to worry about.
Our first heat wave coming to Phoenix later this week. Coffee Cake is breaking bud now with tender new leaves that will get burnt just like last year. Chocolate broke bud two weeks earlier and is ready for the heat wave.
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