I think some members have trouble with Nikita’s gift dropping fruit @mamuang @RUenvsci Also I think @SMC_zone6 @BobVance are near you and might have good tips for picking suitable persimmons. There are a lot of options out there!
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I am no expert at persimmons, but would like to add this if it helps. A lady around the block from me has a persimmon tree her grandfather planted. It is huge. We live in South eastern PA in zone 7.
I am pretty sure they are Saijo, but not definite. Here are some pictures.
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I had a decent amount of fruit on my Nikita’s Gift this year (I think there were only a few last year, as it was grafted in June 2017). It dropped all the fruit both years. But, it is still relatively young, so I’m hoping it does better next year.
I am relatively close-by to Joe, but I don’t really have any persimmons I am happy with. I prefer non-astringent and the winters here are a bit too harsh. I’m 5-6 miles from Long Island sound (closer than Joe’s 15), so I don’t think I’d be optimistic about his neighbor’s chances with a full Kaki, unless he has a somewhat protected location (South side of the house, maybe near a window for some heat leakage) or is willing to go through an elaborate protection scheme. I’ve given up on protecting and am focusing on planting them at rentals which are closer to the water (1-2 miles) to see if it will help.
The only persimmon I have which has produced is H-120, which I grafted in 2016 and ripened 6 fruit last year. It has plenty more on it now. But, the fruit size is small and even when jelly-like, there was still a hint of astringency which I wasn’t happy with. But, it is producing at a young age, so I’ve only grafted over part of it.
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Are your Asians on American rootsock? Edible Landscaping rates Saijo as hardy to zone 6 but obviously people here have been having “issues”.
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Yes, mine are on “Native American Persimmon 'Diospyros virginiana”"
Yes, I think they rate IKKJ and Tam Kam as Zone 6 as well, but I have trouble with them in over half the recent winters. I think I had major damage at least 3 in the last 5 years for Tam Kam and I completely lost IKKJs 2 years in a row and no longer have it. Just Fruits and Exotics also rates both as Zone 6A, so it isn’t just EL which is a bit optimistic about hardiness.
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I just got off the phone with Edible Landscaping. They say that fruit drop is common on Nikita’s Gift for the first couple of years of fruiting, and that once the tree gets better established it should hang. He says if it doesn’t hang after a couple of years of fruiting, then it’s likely due to a potassium deficiency.
As far as Saijo goes, he says he has people in CT and RI growing them but that it’s hit or miss. He recommends painting the bottom part of the trunk white and planting in a location protected from the winds.
He recommended Prok American Persimmon for my location. EL’s website says that this one has a “mild” flavor. Sounds like if you are to get two persimmons in CT, Prok and Nikita’s Gift might be the ones to try.
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Curious…which ones?
I grafted Saijo this past spring. Grew ok. I’m hoping to see fruit next year!
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Like Drew mentioned above that JT-02 and Kassandra are the best bet for your Z6A. My JT-02 Hybrid persimmon survived -20F for 2 nights low last Winter without protection and it tasted a lot richer than Nikita’s Gift. nuttrees.net is selling it. Cliff England will send you a nice tree.
Tony
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Thanks, looks like I should listen to you and @PharmerDrewee and just look hybrids and American persimmons. JT-02 does not appear to be available right now, maybe England’s will have some in time for Spring.
I saw an older comment of yours where you recommended Claypool H-118, Prok, and Lehman’s Delight (100-46). Englands has Prok and Lehman’s Delight, but Claypool H-120 and not 118.
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Those fruit sure look like Saijo (I’d bet anything they are), and I just can’t tell you how much I appreciate you posting those photos, Jim. I’ve done quite a bit of googling and have never been able to get much information about how big a saijo tree can get. If mine ever gets that big, I’ll be the happiest guy around. I may even finally have more saijo than I can use! haha. I have 4 Saijo trees at this point because I didn’t know for sure how big they got and I’ve never had all the fruit I wanted.
@Joe and @PharmerDrewee as for winter hardiness, I’ve had some pretty brutal winters since I planted my saijo and it has survived them all- definitely it has gotten down to 0 degrees at least twice. I have had both a Hachiya and a fuyu killed by cold in the same time my Saijo has been planted, so in my very limited experience it seems more hardy than both of those.
Btw, I planted a Nakitas gift last year so we will see how it does for me.
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Thanks
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The best part is, I know the owners of that tree do NOTHING to the tree. They let me harvest it because they don’t like the fruit and most of it falls and rots to the ground. Those pictures are from two years ago I believe, when I picked a few boxes of fruit and dehydrated them into a “candy”. Last year we had an early freeze and the fruit was not as good after that. This year there are a lot less fruit on the tree. I’ll ask to pick some more and let you know how they are.
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YES!!! I should have added the same thing. I have never pruned, sprayed, thinned, or done anything whatsoever to my Saijo other than throwing a couple handfuls of 15-15-15 on it once a year. Its ironic that my favorite fruit comes from the tree that by far takes the least amount of work and effort!
AND…btw…your description on dried Saijo as “candy” is extremely on point. I just got my new dehydrator in the mail yesterday, put some Saijo in immediately, and tasted it today at lunch. INCREDIBLE!!!
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@growjimgrow You ought to get scions from that tree to graft. It sounds like a proven winner. Very impressive! I wish I had a neighbor like that.
@Susu Tipo and Picudo, both astringents, were planted last year as bare root trees and only experienced damage to the smallest branches. The growth is much more vigorous this year and they quadrupled in size. I’m very optimistic that they do well. Tam Kam lost much of its new growth but rebounded nicely too. Somehow, it has a fruit. It was also just planted last year. Several others were planted this year for trial, and more are overwintering inside in pots since they are small grafts. I plant them next to the house, or evergreens for wind protection.
@Joe Email the owner at England’s @KYnuttrees . He has some varieties in smaller quantities that he doesn’t list, possibly JT-02. He’s very helpful with recommendations if you tell him what you’re looking for.
@thecityman I’m glad to hear about Saijo’s hardiness. I just get nervous since my tree is still small. I’m very tempted to cover mind with a tarp if it looks like a bad winter. You have me anxious to taste my own with your reports on its superior tastes. Let’s fast forward a couple years!
@tonyOmahaz5 Did your JT-02 make any fruit this year? The scion you sent me turned into a 4 foot tall tree. This is a very vigorous variety! I will plant it soon to help it get established for better growth next year.
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I would absolutely love to just mail you a couple Saijo, but if ever there was a fruit that couldn’t take shipping, it would be this one. It is an almost liquid (I describe it as being like jello) and the skin is incredibly thin and delicate. I often end up breaking them open just carrying them from tree to my house. I also hope I haven’t overstated the incredible taste of this fruit- certainly there are folks who just don’t like the texture and if ever there was such a thing as a fruit being TOO sweet (to me there isn’t, but others think there is) it would be Saijo. And of course any time something is hyped up the way I have Saijo there is likely to be over expectations that result in disappointment. In spite of all that, I stand by my reviews, at least for MY Tastes!
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I’m sure I could get scions in the winter. If anyone wants some, let me know and I’ll make a list and collect enough for whoever asks.
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That’s a beautiful mature Saijo tree! I’ve heard that the oldest living persimmon tree is a Saijo – over 600 years old. It is grafted!
I wish someone had photos of that one.
Are you continuing to try to graft it onto the same rootstock? In other words, could the problem be with a particular rootstock as opposed to the scions?
I’ve done dozens of successful Asian persimmon field grafts (after three years of 100% failure on dozens of attempts), and for my location in zone 7 North Carolina I believe I get the best results grafting around the last week of April/first week of May. For reference, I normally plant tomatoes around mid to late April. If there aren’t any really cold temperature in the 10-day forecast at that point, I can pretty much count on being past any danger of a late frost by April 20-25.
@murky and @Auburn, if you’re field grafting, I’d recommend letting your rootstock get up to at least 3/4" in diameter and 5-8’ tall before grafting. I think you’ll have better success grafting, and I think you’ll see fruit just as soon (if not earlier) as by grafting earlier onto a smaller rootstock that will rebound from grafting much more slowly and still need to size up before it fruits.
From the reports I’ve heard – and I’ve tried to read a lot – I think Saijo will likely suffer severe dieback starting somewhere around -5F and possibly even at slightly higher temps. I have a friend in zone 6 southwest Virginia that has about given up on Asian persimmons, including hybrids like Nikita’s gift that aren’t necessarily any cold hardier than Saijo. I think some of the other hybrids are significantly more cold hardy. Nikita’s gift tastes great, though.
I’ve had no trouble. My tree is loaded right now, and they’re about ripe. I’ll try to take a photo.
@growjimgrow Thanks for sharing those beautiful photos.
Are you growing jujubes? The sweetness varies, but at their sweetest their over the top.
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Thanks I emailed him earlier in the afternoon and will place the order with him tonight or tomorrow.
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Does anyone know where I can find some persimmon rootstock? I was just going through the nursery list from this forum and didn’t see much.
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