My soil analysis vs planting fruit trees

General Fruit Growing
21

I would never postpone planting fruit trees for a year because of existing weeds regarding a small orchard. I’m not against the round up but one can use a wick stick to avoid hitting the green trunks of small trees.

If the weeds are that terrible you can lay out cardboard covered with wood chips and hold them back a while. Even landscape fabric might be useful as long as you control the voles.

If you have a tractor you can raise whole 8’ wide rows which will help a great deal with heavy soil. The raised rows should probably rise about 18" above the middles. If you are doing mounds you might want to go up as high as 2’. In true clay that is like something you can throw pottery pots with I would add a coarser top soil to create mounds, or a mixture of sand and compost- a half yard per tree. If you can, you can mix half of that with the clay as the base of the mound.

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22

Goji was a big disappointment here. Very bitter aftertaste. The only thing that was worse to me was Yacoun. Though while blandly sweet; tends to give very bad gas issues.

23

The Andean root vegetable?

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24

Yes. It tastes more like fruit strangely. Crisp and crunchy. I kind of enjoyed it until the gas set in. It has some large form of indigestible sugar that rapidly gases up. Maybe there is a way to cook it?

The flavor was sort of a melon, apple and pear had a baby.

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25

Yacoun/yacón contains inulin. People who eat uncooked Jerusalem artichokes/suchokes (which also contain inulin) oftentimes have that same experience.

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26

Not sure I’m reading the micros in your soil test too accurately.

Doesn’t look so bad to me. I would dig the holes being careful to knock yourself out making big holes.

If you are a doughy white collar guy like me, get a pick axe and a shovel and dig hard for 15 minutes a day until the size of your hole gets a little ridiculous. 4-7 days. Berm the hole good.

Screen the backfill with rabbit wire, not chicken wire.

A couple of handfuls of wet peat moss won’t hurt anything. But basically, other than the screening you don’t jack with the soil.

Most compost is a little acidic. But it can be applied as a mulch just as well, especially after it gets warm. I guess three or four tablespoons of iron sulfate (highly acidic) spread evenly during the growing season wouldn’t hurt. Given the soil analysis, a small bit of 10-10-10 or straight Phosphorus after growth gets underway wouldn’t hurt either. Once you get phosphorus squared away, you will probably not have to deal with it again for years, if ever—-it’s not very transitory.

Make any addition of micros on an as-needed basis in strict and conservative accordance with published application schedules.

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I have converted enough clay soil to serve individual fruit trees with maybe 8 cubic feet of sand. This will not create concrete when done in a scale suitable for a modest sized fruit tree- the size of your average mature peach tree in decent soil.

The literature fails to note this, I assume because they are talking about amending soil for forest sized trees where adding enough sand to convert a clay would require a tremendous amount. Converting a clay soil to a coarser soil is entirely possible, but very labor intensive because it is so hard to mix clay with anything. Roto-tillers don’t have that much power, unless they are PTO to a strong tractor, I suppose.

That is why the easiest thing to do is to add soil above the clay when it won’t drain properly.

28

Can you expand on this? What implement would be used? Thanks.

29

Welcome to the forum!

Vinegar will have a temporary effect but you can use sulfuric acid for the desired, long term, effect. I found a pure diluted sulfuric acid drain cleaner and diluted it further before applying

Another vote for cardboard + woodchips can smother any weed. You will need a LOT of cardboard though and certain weeds will immediately start creeping into the exteriors. I go far out with my cardboard + woodchips from the trees and then once or twice a year hit the rim of the mulch with some weed killer to knock back the most aggressive weeds

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30

Is the drain cleaner liquid lightening (virgin sulfuric acid)? I am using that for stratification of seeds; I didn’t think to use it to lower the pH of my soil for blueberries. How are the results?

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This is literally the same as adding elemental sulfur, just with less steps. (ie, the sulfur eventually turns into sulfuric acid)
Just make sure it’s not that concentrated

32

Commercial growers do this with equipment that I’m not familiar with but Olpea probably can provide specific directions. I always create mounds for my customers with hand tools. I think this other method is called ridging the soil.

It might be interesting to see what Olpea thinks of this ChatAI answer.
how do commercial fruit growers ridge the soil of rows to improve drainage. What equipment do they usually use.

ChatGPT said:

ChatGPT

Commercial fruit growers often ridge the soil to improve drainage in areas prone to waterlogging or poor soil structure. Ridging elevates the root zone, allowing excess water to drain away more effectively. Here’s how they typically create ridges and the equipment used:

1. Pre-Ridging Preparations

  • Soil testing: To ensure the soil has appropriate fertility and structure.
  • Clearing: The ground is cleared of debris and large rocks.
  • Tilling/Subsoiling: A tiller or subsoiler is used to loosen compacted soil and break up hardpan layers for improved drainage.

2. Creating the Ridges

  • Moldboard Plow or Disc Plow:
    • Used to lift and turn the soil to create initial mounds.
    • Effective for creating larger ridges or bedding rows.
  • Ridge-Till or Raised Bed Shaper:
    • These specialized implements shape and compact the ridges into uniform rows.
    • A bed shaper with hilling discs or wings is often attached to a tractor to create precise raised beds with sloping sides and flat tops.
  • Rotary Hillers:
    • Rotary hillers with adjustable wings can move and shape soil efficiently to create consistent ridges.

3. Final Touches

  • Rollers or Packers:
    • Rollers may be used to firm the ridges and ensure they hold their shape.
  • Grading Equipment:
    • For precise leveling and to ensure water drains correctly, grading equipment like laser-guided scrapers might be used in high-value orchards.

Key Equipment Examples

  1. Bed Shapers
  • Popular models include the Rain-Flo Bedder or Kverneland Ridge Formers.
  1. Hilling Discs and Attachments
  • Hilling discs are mounted on tractors for more localized ridging in established rows.
  1. Laser Levelers and Drainage Tile Plows
  • Some growers use laser-controlled equipment to ensure water drains away efficiently, especially in low-lying areas.
  1. Custom Ridges with GPS Guidance:
  • For precision, GPS-guided tractors can create perfectly straight rows with consistent ridges, critical in large-scale operations.

Best Practices

  • Maintenance:
    Ridges should be maintained regularly to prevent erosion and compaction. Mulching or cover crops may help stabilize the ridges.
  • Drainage Planning:
    Ridges should be aligned to direct water into ditches or drainage channels to prevent pooling at the ends of rows.

Ridge creation is a balance of soil type, slope, and crop requirements. For clay-heavy soils, adding organic matter or incorporating drainage tiles might complement ridging efforts.

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33

Don’t remember if what I used was labeled as ‘virgin’ or not. I’ll be taking new ph readings come spring but I did notice that my blueberries were starting to perk up later in the summer

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34

I just saw this thread.

The methods listed by chat (i.e. ridge tillers, bed shapers, hillers, rollers/packers) are not used by any commercial orchards I know of for orchard trees. The problem is that just about all those methods are for ridging the soil, not building terraces. Ridging is generally used for row crops, or crops with raised beds, not planting trees, unless they are nursery trees. Nurseries use ridging equipment. I have a friend who uses a bed shaper to make beds with his strawberries. It also lays the plastic down at the same time.

There are a few exceptions. There are probably some commercial orchards which use hillers/bed shapers for high density apple plantings. I’ve not seen them, but I’m guessing they could use them for that. Those trees are so small they are grown more or less like row crops.

Another exception would be a disc plow. My wife has a cousin who owns a commercial peach orchard. He used a disc plow to create terraces. The problem is that it’s really not made to create big terraces, without a lot of work. It’s an old tool farmers used. It works well enough to create a 2’ tall terrace.

The other plow mentioned, a moldboard plow, is just a basic Midwest plow. John Deere invented it around 1837. It is termed, “the plow which broke the plains”. Previously, plows were not self-cleaning, and gummed up in heavy Midwest soils. Mr. Deere was a blacksmith and invented a plow which could be effectively used in Midwest plains (the moldboard plow).

I have one of John Deere’s quotes on my website, “I will never put my name on a product which does not have in it, the best that is in me.”

There are other plows, like a chisel plow, and a subsoiler/ripper (which is basically a longer thicker chisel plow). But a moldboard plow is the one which turns the soil over.

By repeatedly going the same direction on one side of where you want your terrace, then going the other direction on the other side of where you want your terrace, you can effectively build a terrace that way with a moldboard plow. Farmers used to build terraces that way.

There is better equipment now. I used a blade (i.e. motor grader) to build mine. They do more than a plow would do. Do it better and faster. The first one I bought, then sold it after I built the terraces. I’ve posted this pic before, but here it is after I used it to build some terraces.

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The next time I needed one, I rented it. It was much nicer because it articulated, and had a ripper on the back to loosen the soil before terracing. It also had forward assist (i.e. 6 wheel drive) so it could do more work.

I’ve also already posted a couple short videos of building terraces with it on the forum. I rented it for 80 hrs. The rent was $9K. Here they are:

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