do you know about the percentage of trees that died and have never fully recovered? I would say I have a rough estimate around 200 trees severe damage right now, maybe around 10-15 species.
i read this entire thread. wow. just wow.
@thecityman - how is the orchard now? how many new trees etc. what happened to the farm land?
Just as I suspected- the people who sprayed your trees are the ones telling you its no big deal and they will just leaf back out. That is like having the guy who just rear-ended you tell you that your neck will be just fine and there is no need to go see a doctor or lawyer! haha.
I agree with everything @dimitri_7a said above and that is my experience. Some trees bounce back, some do not. And they did damage your property and have given you a lot of work and worry to do now in terms of watching and tracking the injured trees and so on. If you’ve read this thread, you know I was extremely reluctant to report the overspray, make the offender pay for damage, etc. I wanted to just get along and not be “that guy” who makes a big deal over things and I just generally like to avoid conflict. But looking back I should have been tougher. You have an even better opportunity- this is a commercial business that did this to you. They have insurance for this and can (and should) make you whole again.
Its been so long that I can’t remember which fruit trees were the most susceptible but I’m sure I noted that in the thread above. I do know that fruit trees were more sensitive to the effects than were my other trees. In fact, several of the more common trees (oaks, maples, etc) didn’t even drop leaves. Not all fruit trees did either. The biggest symptom was that all new growth came out as little strongy-thin leaves with long (very long) curly stems. I’d say about 30% of my trees that were sprayed died, but death took as much as a year in many cases- a couple even 2 years. Most of the deaths weren’t evident until the following spring when they just didn’t wake back up after winter. This is important information for you because the co-op and their insurance may urge you to settle quickly and give them a number of trees that died. But you can’t do that until the following year.
You have a long road ahead of you, and I’m sorry this happened. I’ll help anyway that I can. One of the big problems I had was determining the value of a 3-6 year old fruit tree. I mean, you have the original cost of the tree, then all the labor you spent pruning, spraying, etc, Then all the chemicals and fertilize you used on it for years. Then if it was in or almost in production, you have the loss of income it could have generated for the next 3-6 years it will take to get another tree that size. I let my neighbor off with just the cost of a new tree which was insanely cheap and you absolutely should demand more.
@odin.9 I replaced about 25 trees or so, and most of the others recovered eventually. I still have a few that never grew any more and still suffer from what happened and really should just be cut down but its a very small number. Overall I’ve put it behind me and now have regular orchard problems we all deal with. But thanks for your concern, and yes, it was an unbelievable saga!
2 Likes
I’ve had some experience dealing with insurance because 3 years ago a fire destroyed around 500 trees of mine, so they paid what it would take to replace the current size of the tree that i had lost, not size I had planted. But the biggest trees were only 15ft tall, as the fire didn’t destroy larger, thicker trunked trees. That area is still struggling, as I was getting past the rabbits, deer, etc problems, then have to restart at the small stage again is a pain. But I just try to keep planting trees on my farm and keep ahead of the destruction.
Is my magnolia tree having herbicide damage too?
Most of leaves are all curled up, except a few leaves not folding up as much( in picture 3)
I think this is a sweet bay magnolia tree, I have been feeling something not right for awhile (not sure exactly for how long), but didn’t pay attention to it until today.
I have never sprayed herbicide. My yard are serviced by TruGreen( A pretty big company, I think), they did spray fertilizer and weed killer in Mid May. But all my other trees are fine.
There is a tree(D)next to it (M) only about 5 feet away, it looks fine.
Closest fruit tree is 10 feet away, no problem.
My neighbor use a different lawn service company, also a large company. They don’t grow any vegetable or fruit.
So is this herbicide damage? What could be the culprit?
Sara- I cannot say for sure, but yes, that also looks very much like 2,4-D damage and I strongly suspect it is. Lawn care services absolutely use 2, 4-D. IF you don’t know, that particular spray is designed to kill certain kinds of weeds (Broadleaf, etc) but not kill grass. So the idea is you end up with a pretty yard filled with grass but no dandelions or other weeds. It actually can make for a nice stand of grass, but not a healthy ecosystem since there is no biodiversity in those perfect looking yards.
The fact the two different trees 5 feet apart could look very different doesn’t prove anything at all. In fact, even when my fruit trees got hit some looked fine while others were outright killed- even when the good looking ones would be closer to the sprayed area. Some trees are simply more resistent.
The good news is that, at least in my experience, the non-fruit trees that I had get hit and effected all came out of it. Only my fruit trees were killed and severely damaged. So your magnolia may come out of it… But yes, I fear that is what is wrong with it and I’d bet your own lawn service did it. If you ask them I’m sure they will deny it and tell you that they are very careful and so on. Just like in the story above where the co-op that sprayed @KlecknerOasis told him it wasn’t a problem!
Kevin, thank you for your answer! I knew the Lawn care company use weed killer to kill broadleaf weeds, but didn’t know they use 2,4-D! I thought they would use something more benign.
I have followed your ordeal from the beginning, and just caught up with all the posting in this thread yesterday. That’s how I thought of possible herbicide damage of my magnolia tree.
I have cats and had dogs, and have resisted using those law care service for years, but finally gave in last year because I felt that weeds were going to take over my lawn. Guess I have to expand the mulch area to provide my trees with more barrier protection.
Glad to hear that non fruit tree came out ok eventually. There are many flower buds on the magnolia tree, but guess They won’t flower much this year.
Glad to help, Sara. Of course, I’m no expert and also no one can be sure just by looking at a photo, but it sure looks like that is what happened to your tree. BTW…if you feel you really, really need to do something to control your broadleaf weeds in your yard and don’t want to risk overspray, they do make 2, 4-D granules. There is still some risk, but I think its a lot less than the spray. I’d recommend using neither to be safe, but if your neighbors are giving you mean looks because you don’t have the perfect lawns that others on your street do, you could consider that- or tell your lawn service you want them to use the granules instead of spray. Good luck!
1 Like
I just finished rereading this complete post, it takes some time!
In your quote you said you never sprayed herbicide, but TruGreen did for you.
The second picture has a dying dandelion that is not consistent with 24D. Some background, after a report came out many years ago about health concerns and 24D, Chemlawn, a very large, now a Trugreen purchased lawn company, quit using 24D and they stopped being able to kill dandys. That was the year I started my LC company using 24D and was successful because I killed dandys. Because of the size of Chemlawn/Trugreen, new herbicides were developed which killed dandys w/o 24D. What you see is the result of one of those new herbicides.
I’m not sure about PA., but in Iowa, the consumer has a legal ‘right to know’. You can call Trugreen and demand to be told exactly what they sprayed on your lawn and in what concentration. They will resist telling you, if they do threaten to call your state pesticide bureau. Failure to comply with this is the loss of a valued pesticide licence.
Not to tell you what to do but, your LC company is responsible for the tree damage. Trugreen is notorious in the industry for this. You can decide what to do.
Any application of broadleaf herbicides within the root zone of trees is risky to the tree. Granulated products can volatilize too and almost all products are a mix of 2-3 herbicides with differing modes and sites of activity in targeted and nontargeted species. As City said, Good Luck!
If broadleaf weeds are an issue, have a dedicated hand sprayer and use just enough product to kill the weed and not cover the whole yard. Learn how to fertilize the lawn yourself and buy more fruit trees with the money you will save!
1 Like
I’m confused by this. Are you saying 2,4-D doesn’t kill dandelions? I don’t think so because a few sentences later you said you used 2,4-D in your lawn care company to kill dandies after other companies stopped. SO perhaps you are saying that in the photo the dandy seems to be dying in a way that isn’t consistent with 2, 4-D. But it looks like what I saw happen to my dandies when 2, 4-D was sprayed on them. I trust your judgement, just trying to understand your thinking here. I thought the dead dandy was evidence that it WAS 2, 4-D, especially since the grass isn’t dying as it would by with round-up.
Good Morning Kevin, hope you and yours are doing well today!
24D still kills dandys. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear. When Chemlawn stopped using 24D in the mid 70s, I was there to ‘rescue’ their customers from dandys because I still used it.
When I said that weed wasn’t dying in a manner consistant with 24D, there is no elongation and twisting in the foliage that the plant growth regulators cause. Some of the newer chemistry kills in a burndown type fashion and that dying dandy seemed to be burntdown, not curled. I was also judging by the leaf curling on the magnolia tree. The downward curling suggests another herbicide other than 24D because 24D will cup the leaves upwards not downward as in the picture. Also there is no evidence of parallel veination that 24D will cause in the new leaves.
Hope that helps, Phil.
1 Like
Got it Phil! Thanks for the explanation, and it does make sense now completely. I certainly agree that 2,4-d usually causes a “twisting death”. Since you just reread this thread (that is an impressive feat, btw!!!) you know that it was those curling leaf stems the had me so puzzled when I started this thread. Little did I know all the drama that was to come! haha
I know you aren’t in the lawncare business now, but I cant help but think it would still be a very, very lucrative business. In this age where most American’s don’t want to do any hard work, and most people’s idea of a beautiful yard is one that has no biodiversity and consists of nothing but pure grass and maybe-if they have to- a tree or two! ha. Add to that the fact the lawn care companies charge an absolute shocking fortune just to come by every few weeks and throw out some chemicals- most of which you can buy at Lowes. My friend, you got out too soon! haha
I got burned out in that business. I was a one man band and had 400+ customers, the phone started ringing at 630 and didn’t stop till 1100. There was never a break and when a guy I knew in a neighboring town offered me a fair price, I took it. Mind now, it was very profitable and I had enough good customers that I could pick and choose any I wanted, but the dawn to dusk from Feb-Nov got to be too much. I also had been working lawn care for 25 yrs.
This has come full circle hasn’t it? Now we help new folks. Always good to pay forward!
Have a good nite!
3 Likes
@Chikn, thank you, That’s a lot of valuable information! So it’s not 2,4-D, but Something just as damaging 
So do you know a lot about these new herbicides TruGreen is using? Do you think my magnolia tree can recover?
I realized I said they “spray”…, actually they “spread“ granulated stuff. I saw the guy on riding spreader going through my lawn back in May. They do sometimes spray, I saw they dragging a hose go through my lawn before, but not this time.
2 days ago, they came back for another application. I went to talk to the guy and saw granulated stuff shooting out the spreader the guy is riding, it was actually shooting out very far. So I am afraid even I expand the mulch area around the tree I may not be able to prevent the herbicide get to the root areas completely. (Fortunately, this time it only has fertilizer without weed killer because it was raining.) what else can I do short of cancel the lawn service?
I can handle spot treating the weed if that’s the only problem. But if the lawn Is not fertilized properly, the grass is week and weeds take over. If I just kill the weeds, then I loose the soil because my yard is not very flat… … you get the picture.
Many years ago, my husband tried to apply fertilizer mix bought from big box store. I don’t think it made much difference to the grass, he gave up after a few try’s. I always suspect LC companies have secrete sauce, use much stronger fertilizer not available to consumer. Do they?
Buying the fertilizer from Home Depot is not cheap, it can be $60 for 15000 se ft. And if I have to pay someone to do it if hubby is not available, I don’t think I save a whole lot. Did I calculate it wrong? Are there other inexpensive way to get good lawn fertilizer?
Anyway, thank you very much for your help! At least I know what’s going on now.
Kevin, I know why my fruit trees are spared of herbicide damages now. Most of my fruit trees are pretty wide with about 8 ft radius span, and the branches are pretty low. So they can’t get close to my fruit tree on a riding spreader. My magnolia tree, on the other hand, has very narrow span, they can pretty close to the Tree.
Makes perfect sense- especially now that you told us they used granules and not spray. I still think it may have been 2,4-Ds though. Let us know if you talk to your company and get a list of exactly what chemicals you use .
1 Like
Unfortunately, I left the industry as the herbicides were changing from the older 24D based products to the new ones. Make sure your tree gets proper care to help it recover, water and light doses of fertilizer.
Turfgrasses are stout competitors against most weeds. From the pictures you supplied, the turf is not in great shape. I’m sure you can find a local LC company that will dry fertilize your lawn twice a year without any broadleaf herbicide to damage the trees but with a pre-emergent in the spring to control crabgrass. 2 applications a year are all lawns really need, spring and fall, April and mid-late Sept.
No secrets, not stronger, just professional equipment and the training to use it right (some companies).
Professional quality products are always more expensive, quality costs! The slow release fertilizers I used in my business were 50% more expensive than the homeowner products, but my lawns looked like I used the good stuff.
My best recommendations are to do your research, read and follow label instructions on pesticides, and strap it on and do it. It’s not difficult and the education you give yourself will be useful in everything horticulture you do.
Have fun! Chikn.
I’m pretty sure it"s not, I sold products to them for years, 20+ years ago so the memory is a little weak. 
. The dry products shouldn’t contact the tree leaves and the root uptake products aren’t the growth regulators like 24D (mostly).
I very much trust your judgment and certainly you have a lot more experience. I guess I’m just having a hard time with it not being 2, 4-D because I haven’t seen anything else make tree leaves look like those, but then again I haven’t really seen trees hit by anything but roundup and 2,4-D so I wouldn’t know. My other hesitation is because we used to use a big professional lawn company where I work and I know they used 2,4-D because I asked them, so I know some still use it. But like you said, that dandelion didn’t look quite right and I sure don’t have a lot of experience…so point well taken!
BTW…I sure had a good asparagus year this year. I know you used to grow them in a big way!.
That’s how I felt, but no LC is willing to do that. They all want to do 5-7 applications. Guess they want to make money too.
No, it’s not in great shape. That’s why I felt compelled to do something about it and started the service last year.
I hope so! I didn’t know there are still local company exist. I will start looking. Will come back ask you where to find good quality fertilizer when it’s time.
Thank you very much for your help! Really appreciate that you spend the time explain everything to me, thank you again!